Uncovered: The Truth About the Iraq War

[quote]doogie wrote:
So we shouldn’t address ANY injustices until we can fight them all at the same time?[/quote]

no, that’s not what I’m saying…

the U.S. should (because of a lack of resources) address issues with the most important U.S. interests in mind (these are, of course, up for debate)…

America doesn’t have the military man power to successfully invade and occupy every country in the world being run by an oppressive regime…

although it would be great to stamp out all injustice in the world, that goal is not a practical one that can be (at present time at least) carried out…

the U.S. needs to pick and choose it’s fights carefully to not overextend itself…

make sense now?

[quote]DPH wrote:
doogie wrote:
So we shouldn’t address ANY injustices until we can fight them all at the same time?

no, that’s not what I’m saying…

the U.S. should (because of a lack of resources) address issues with the most important U.S. interests in mind (these are, of course, up for debate)…

America doesn’t have the military man power to successfully invade and occupy every country in the world being run by an oppressive regime…

although it would be great to stamp out all injustice in the world, that goal is not a practical one that can be (at present time at least) carried out…

the U.S. needs to pick and choose it’s fights carefully to not overextend itself…

make sense now?[/quote]

Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?

[quote]doogie wrote:
DPH wrote:
doogie wrote:
So we shouldn’t address ANY injustices until we can fight them all at the same time?

no, that’s not what I’m saying…

the U.S. should (because of a lack of resources) address issues with the most important U.S. interests in mind (these are, of course, up for debate)…

America doesn’t have the military man power to successfully invade and occupy every country in the world being run by an oppressive regime…

although it would be great to stamp out all injustice in the world, that goal is not a practical one that can be (at present time at least) carried out…

the U.S. needs to pick and choose it’s fights carefully to not overextend itself…

make sense now?

Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?

[/quote]

hey DPH, looks like doogie just isn’t going to get it. Please check again on the above countries that you listed doogie. We haven’t “taken out” anyone yet, last time I checked, we’re still muddling around in Afghanistan.

[quote]30yrheel wrote:

hey DPH, looks like doogie just isn’t going to get it. Please check again on the above countries that you listed doogie. We haven’t “taken out” anyone yet, last time I checked, we’re still muddling around in Afghanistan.[/quote]

We could leave Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow and it would be a long time before either country could hope to again pose a threat to us. That is taking care of our business.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?
[/quote]

no…we haven’t ‘taken out’ Iraq or Afghanistan yet…and we are not ready to move into Iran…

if we’re going to ‘stay the course’ as one prominent politician has said, the U.S. will have a substantial military presense in Iraq and Afghanistan for many years to come…

an invasion of Iran (under current conditions) could easily overextend our military resourses…for a ‘winnable’ scenario to work, a draft would have to be implemented…

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
If I hear another person tell me what the truth is about Iraq I am going to punch him in the face. I did not vote for Bush, but I would have shot myself before voting in Kerry. Regardless, we are at a point now where just about every person in our military is there because they either enlisted or re-enlisted knowing full well the war is on and they will likely go. Very few got forced into Iraq. To that I say leave us military guys the hell alone! If we want to fight, let us fight.

Everyone talks about why we are fighting the war. Believe it or not, Bush is not fighting the war, thousands of individual Americans are. Without their enlistments there is no war. Not everyone is a mindless zombie piping up some 9/11 garbage or talking about WMD’s. They each have their own individual reasons. I volunteered after a year in college to go back because I have seen the kind of people we are fighting now and they are honest to God evil people. The Iraqi military was NOT evil, these jihadis ARE.

Sitting in the jungle in '02 with some Phillipino airmen drinking San Miguel before we did another convoy against the Abu Sayeff terrorist group I saw a video mailed to the men where an ambush is filmed which leads to rounding some guys up, beheading them and smiling to the camera with their heads in hand. That haunts me to this day. That was the only time in my life I WANTED to kill. Those are the kind of sick fucks we are fighting now in Iraq.

We fight for different reasons, that is mine and I know that I am not alone. If you don’t like Bush, you should have tried harder to convince the idiots in this country not to vote for him. You should have decided to vote your conscience instead of a “lesser of two evils”. But the votes have been cast. Bash Bush’s other policies if you wish, but shut up about the war. It is OUR [the military’s] war, let us fight, and if need be, die for what we believe in without you people telling us how brainwashed and lied to we were.

Mike[/quote]

Great post. This soldiers as victims crap that Michael Moore and MoveOn peddle is incredibly degrading to American soldiers. And San Miguel’s a good beer.

[quote]doogie wrote:
30yrheel wrote:

hey DPH, looks like doogie just isn’t going to get it. Please check again on the above countries that you listed doogie. We haven’t “taken out” anyone yet, last time I checked, we’re still muddling around in Afghanistan.

We could leave Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow and it would be a long time before either country could hope to again pose a threat to us. That is taking care of our business.

[/quote]

Not at all. An Iraq in the throes of a civil war or partition, a true failed state, would be a greater terrorist sanctuary and training ground than Afghanistan ever was, and in some ways a bigger threat to us than Saddam’s Iraq.

And leaving Afghanistan at a medieval level with an economy dependent on selling heroin to the rest of the world isn’t exactly a good thing.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
DPH wrote:
pussies???

courage is standing up for what you think is right…

even if it’s something that the great lothario disagrees with…

Ah yes, but what is it that you are defending? There is a courage in standing up to what y’all feel is lies and deceit… I like that. As I said before, I have my suspicions about Mr. Bush myself.

BUT

Don’t use that vehemence against falsehood to cover up what may (emphasize: may) be a lack of willingness to do what is right, even if it is difficult and costly.

Iraqi freedom has been hard-won. We have paid for it with many lives, and countless amounts of money. I have a feeling that you are one who thinks that none of our sacrifice has been worth it, and that it was a terrible idea to begin with… predicated on lie, carried through on false pretenses, and all for nothing.

You are no fool, DPH. Ask Mikey if it is worth it. Fuck Michael Moore. Ask the guys that are there, that have been there. I have friends going back soon. I have friends who enlisted. They carry no illusions about why… just like Mr. Mike here.

A pussy will find any reason to avoid confrontation, no matter how necessary. He will abandon his principles at the first sign of trouble. Please make sure that this is not you.

Iraq isn’t free. If we pulled out completely today, that entire region would fall into conflict. This entire process should have been better thought out before it began. There NEEDS to be discussion of why and how it was screwed up and by whom.[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You can tell perspective is lost the moment the mind of the entire military is somehow linked to who is in office. I disagree with MANY of the actions of this administration. I am also military. Me being military doesn’t mean I need to stop people from talking about how the administration screwed up.

Agreed. The administration is full of screw ups. I just do not necessarily believe that means we should automatically scrap the whole war.

Mike[/quote]

That’s exactly how I feel. Unfortunately some “conservatives” are more concerned about keeping the Republican Party in power at all costs than fixing mistakes and winning the war.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Iraq isn’t free. If we pulled out completely today, that entire region would fall into conflict. This entire process should have been better thought out before it began. There NEEDS to be discussion of why and how it was screwed up and by whom.[/quote]

Not to split hairs, but Iraq is most certainly free. What it isn’t is stable. Yet. We’re working on it, give us a damn minute.

About how this was handled, I can’t help but agree that it seemed like a rush job…

BUT

I am not a general in charge of all this shit. None of us knows just what the logistics were… Turkey didn’t cooperate, etc. I’m thinking we should have gone in with more guys and more armor. Fallujah was a fuck up the first time. There’s all kinds of shit that becomes obvious with hindsight, isn’t there? :slight_smile:

[quote]DPH wrote:
doogie wrote:
Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?

no…we haven’t ‘taken out’ Iraq or Afghanistan yet…and we are not ready to move into Iran…

…[/quote]

Any day now we should topple the Taliban and evict Saddam from his palaces.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Any day now we should topple the Taliban and evict Saddam from his palaces.[/quote]

And I can’t help but think:

“Wouldn’t that be cool if we could get the Iraqi people to have a shot at a fair election process?”

I mean, what if we help them hold elections? Of course, probably none of the Iraqis would turn out for that, it’s not like they would want to vote or anything – but it just sounds nice, doesn’t it?

But I guess we’re just dreamers, huh Zap? :slight_smile:

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Any day now we should topple the Taliban and evict Saddam from his palaces.

And I can’t help but think:

“Wouldn’t that be cool if we could get the Iraqi people to have a shot at a fair election process?”

I mean, what if we help them hold elections? Of course, probably none of the Iraqis would turn out for that, it’s not like they would want to vote or anything – but it just sounds nice, doesn’t it?

But I guess we’re just dreamers, huh Zap? :)[/quote]

They would never show up to vote. The Islamic world does not have a history of democracy and therefore would never vote in numbers like we do in the US.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
DPH wrote:
doogie wrote:
Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?

no…we haven’t ‘taken out’ Iraq or Afghanistan yet…and we are not ready to move into Iran…

Any day now we should topple the Taliban and evict Saddam from his palaces.[/quote]

come on Zap, the job in Iraq and Afghanistan is far from over…

[quote]DPH wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
DPH wrote:
doogie wrote:
Isn’t that exactly what we’ve done by first taking out Afghanistan, then Iraq, and now moving on to Iran?

no…we haven’t ‘taken out’ Iraq or Afghanistan yet…and we are not ready to move into Iran…

Any day now we should topple the Taliban and evict Saddam from his palaces.

come on Zap, the job in Iraq and Afghanistan is far from over…[/quote]

The job is not done. We could destroy Irans capability to make nukles in about two weeks but that would leave us with a broken Iran we would need to fix.

[quote]DPH wrote:
come on Zap, the job in Iraq and Afghanistan is far from over…[/quote]

… and that’s the way we like it, for now.

When you go in to secure precious natural resources that you are dependent on, you don’t just crash the party and then leave.

Every time one of those terrorist retards blows themselves up somewhere in the Middle East, it’s just that much more reason for us to stick around.

When the middle east learns how to play nice with each other, they can come out of “time out”. Until then, the nations that support terrorism get the dunce cap and have to sit in the corner.

Question(s): what could possibly be more fucked up than the act of suicide bombing yourself against a bunch of innocent people? Is such a cowardly and monstrously selfish act something that a civilized person does? I mean, these guys are paid (well, their families are) the equivalent of five grand to strap a bomb filled with nails and shit to themselves and push the button at restaurants and whatnot.

So who’s paying them? Fuckers who live in, and are protected by: Iran. That’s one reason why Iran is next. We can and will go, unless this bullshit stops.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Every time one of those terrorist retards blows themselves up somewhere in the Middle East[/quote]

if only they were retarded…they might blow themselves up at terrorist ‘HQ’ while receiving last minute instructions on how to use the detonator…

unfortunately, they’re just plain old crazy…

[quote]DPH wrote:
if only they were retarded…they might blow themselves up at terrorist ‘HQ’ while receiving last minute instructions on how to use the detonator…
[/quote]

Now that’s just a good thought right there. We can always hope, right? :slight_smile:

[quote]DPH wrote:
don’t worry…the people that have Bush and co. as their hero’s will soon have their own anti-Uncovered video attempting to discredit everyone in that documentary…

[/quote]

Am I the only guy that watched this? I am not sure that they are going to discredit this documentary. Moveon.org is far too credible of a source.

Mike

The US is now spending $10 billion a MONTH to screw around in Afghanistan and Iraq, up from 8.2 billion last year. Adjusting for inflation, that’s more than 50% more than was spent at the height of the Vietnam War.
Un-freaking-believable.