T Nation

Un-Conventional Hypertrophy?


Has anyone used complexes and sled training to pack on size successfully?

The reason I ask, is that im following Dan John's 40 day program, but doing it for 21 days instead. He mentions that he feels complexes are great for size. I posted up a possible routine in that thread but go no answers.

But the main thing would be that if using complexes, you'd probably want to start each workout with a heavy ME type lift, since you wont be able to go quite as heavy in a complex. And then assistance work could be done after the complex, on stuff luck DB rows, curls, face pulls, etc.

As for sled training. If you are using it for size, do you pretty much just treat them like sprints for size? Higher intensity/shorter distances, short rest periods?

Thx for any advice.


-why are you doing the 40 day program for only 21 days?

-how would complexes add significant mass to people who are not completely untrained?

-what are "sprints for size" and who does them?

-how would dragging a sled add significant mass?

-can you please name one single bodybuilder in history who has advocated sprints/sleds/complexes FOR SIZE?


X2 do work that makes you bigger. are you training for powerlifting? if not dont so so much ME.


Mate, that's kinda what he's asking from us..


be more open minded


GO HOME!!! Seriously. If you read the article, Dan John mentions you can do it for 40 days or 21 or whatever. He also mentions, that complexes are one of the best methods to add all around mass. Plenty of articles on this very site metion that sleds can be used to build size, without having to load up your spine too much. And no, i cant name a single bb'er who did this, and that is why this is in the STRENGTH SPORTS section.






sorry, but this doesnt make any sense. he is asking about using sleds, sprints, complexes SPECIFICALLY TO GAIN SIZE.

dont you think its extremely pertinant no one can name a bodybuilder who does them?

hmm, maybe its because it obviously wouldnt fucking work.

OP, rather than wishing to get your toy box out and drag sleds around the playground for fun or do complexes to look hardcore in the gym, stick to the basic exercises which are used to gain size.

clearly, you are totally clueless so il spell it out. here are some, this is not an exhaustive list:

-squat, bench, dead, military. chin, leg press, various isolations movements, some machines.

also, if size is the goal, lots of protein lots of calories.


again, i ask you to find one successful bodybuilder (whos sole aim is hypertrophy and as such would try any protocol which may help gain mass) who has regularly used sprints, sleds or complexes to gain size.

i am asking specifically for successful bodybuilders who have built size doing this, not for conditioning purposes, as this is specifically what the OP has asked for.

if you can name one in the history of humankind, i will send you and stupidkid enough money to buy two solid gold fucking sleds each.


He asks if anyone has used them to build significant size, not whether any pro BBer's have used them. Also, how the fuck do you know how every single successful bodybuilder trains. What, you read the drivvle in Flex and think that they train the way the article describes? I suppose you think Arnold still writes is column to?

What about the muscularity of strongmen and elite throwers. I suppose they do their arms day/ chest day/ back day just like the BBer's and this is what maks them big? Hmmm, maybe not!

Why the negativity? Fuck me, the guy asked a legitimate question and you come out with this shit!

Back to the topic - NO - i don't know anyone who has used these protocols and gained signifian size. Why not just see what happens?


i agree with weighty 100%, why the negativity
obviously he is not a bb'er if hes posting in strength sports sounds to me like hes a ball player

Dankid- i would give it a shot. louis simmons uses sled for hamstring developedment and dan john wouldn't write about it if he didn't know it worked


do you have a link to the article


yeah, clearly im some dweeb whos got every copy of flex under his bed.

listen dude, its not a legitimate question. you have included strongmen and elite throwers into the equation. name me a single strongman or elite thrower WHO HAS ADDED SIZE using sprints, complexes or sleds.

in fact, name me one person on this fucking planet who has gained SIGNIFICANT size from LAUGH OUT LOUD "running sprints" who is not a total newb. im sure pudzianowski built those legs from running sprints right?

Finally, why say "try it and see what happens" when it CLEARLY wont add significant size unless the OP is severely undertrained?


ok, for you and weighty, the hostility is regarding the fact that i posted a number of questions for him in order to think about the validity of his proposal. and his response was to ignore them and tell me to "go home" because i am a new member.

Consequently, my subsequent posts may not have been particularly lucid, but they were blunt and direct enough to spell it out to the OP that his idea is completely stupid. he has been a member here for nearly 4 years yet is totally clueless about how to build size.

HE THINKS RUNNING SPRINTS WILL BUILD HIM MUSCULAR LEGS. (please save me the BS of saying so and so runs sprints and they have big legs. you find me a direct quote from a guy with substantially muscular legs who says they are the result of running and i will retract all my statements from this thread and and go and eat my hat)


Sprinting is not hypertrophic in nature, its a anerobic activity. Your body accelerates as quickly as possible at 110%+ until lactate acid forces the muscle to drop back into a aerobic/semi-aerobic state.

It is physically impossible to get huge legs from running sprints, it is however easy to get insanely strong and achieve a high degree of muscle density, using them. The quickest example is to go into the gym and attempt a highpull for failure.

You'll most likely be able to pull off a set amount of reps of a true highpull, but before long you'll be doing a deadlift because your body's ability to neurologically activate sufficient muscle fibers to accelerate the weight to the speed needed to "defy" gravity and become a highpull will be compromised.

Just thought I'd give the actual reason for the flaming, do more reading, take a exercise science class, read some training manuals and stop get flamed for commonsense things.


ok, so I can see where the hostility came from.

He doesn't say that he thinks sprints will give him big legs, he says should he pull a sled like running sprints with high intensity low volume. Completely different.

And he's been a member just over 2.5years. If he joined just as he started training then he is still pretty new to all this and isn't likely to have exhausted all the possible training protocols to confirm whether something will work for him or not.

Now I'm off to bed! Night all


You will not find a single big guy who gained a large amount of mass from complexes and sled training.



Actually. I told you to go home, because you clearly are smarter than Dan John, and CT and I really am not ready for your level of knowledge. /Idiot.


Chad Waterbury also thinks so.


Don't be the dick that writes all in CAPS, it's really not cool