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Ultimate Fighter Ep03 - Cutting Weight

I am unexperienced with cutting weight, and for those that did not see it, Bobby cut ~25 pounds in ~24 hours. Is this possible “safely”? Is there massive muscle loss? What do you eat when cutting weight?

-Machine

[quote]machine514 wrote:…Bobby cut ~25 pounds in ~24 hours. Is this possible “safely”? Is there massive muscle loss? What do you eat when cutting weight?

-Machine[/quote]

Nope, probably, and nothing at all, in that order. I missed that one episode, but I’ve seen the others.

The idea of dropping weight like that is a last-chance method of hitting a goal. At that drastic point (25 pounds in 24 hours), it’s worth questioning: Is this event worth it, or would it be better to withdraw and compete at an upcoming event in 100% condition? Would it be better to compete in below-maximum condition, just for the sake of competing? Depends on the fighter.

If he were my client, I’d have been sure to know WELL ahead of time what the weight limits are, and plan a training/nutrition program accordingly. What was the result of his weight loss? Did he win the match?

He won the match, but you could tell the rapid weight loss effected him. I’m not sure if he knew he was going to have to make weight for the competition like he did. Also for these guys the rapid weight loss is a risk worth taking because of the outcome.

Yeah, IMO it was an incredibly dickish move on the part of Dane White (CEO of UFC). These guys had no idea when they would have to start fighting or make weight. At the same time it is a competition and coming in 25+ lbs. overweight was probalby not the best idea.

Cutting seems to be a pretty accepted routine for many fighters though. Tito Ortiz is known for making weight (205) and coming in for the actual fight at 225 and above. It is absolutely unhealthy but some people feel it’s worth it.

Bobby actually dropped only 19lbs in that one cut day with a goal of 20lbs. In one hour he dropped 12lbs and had 8 to go, which seemed to be the worst 7lbs he ever lost. Yes, he was whining like a lil Beetch. BUT he made it through and that’s all he had to do.

Had to explain to my former anorexic wifey that cutting weight isn’t the same as anorexia. She was trippin’ on the amount of weight lost in the first hour. It is considered a dangerous practice, but it is temporary and for different reasons compared to anorexia. Explained to her that once you make weight & weigh-in then you “recover”. It’s not considered long term like why people may do what they do and end up anorexic. I mean, I hope people don’t do this long term.

Right, well…all people are stupid (present company excepted), and they will ALWAYS look for the quick fix. That’s why Sports Authority and such places sell “sauna suits”, because people will buy them…unfortunately.

Even taking the recovery into consideration, I’d love to see what your organs look like by going from (for example) 200 pounds to 187 pounds, and back to 200 pounds, all over the course of a day or 2. It’s a yo-yo diet in a time capsule. Yo-Yo’ing gone wild.

This seems like the “darkside” of competitive fight preparation. Every sport has some negative impact on the body. Some much more obvious, others more subtle. But dangerous nonetheless.

Why cut weight, just stay at your competitive weight year round. It?s a stupid practice for lazy ass people.

Obviously someone can’t see the sarcasm.

i could not believe he won. the other guy was being all pompus and making fun of him. it takes a lot to do that much damage to your body in one day and still be able to compete. laters pk

Boss,

Trust me when I tell you that its not laziness in most cases. Cutting and then rehydrating can be a huge advantage and was a big factor in the fight between Southworth and Sincaid. Sincaid could surely cut to 185…he’s not a true 205 guy. Southworth on the other hand, was probably back up to 230 on the day of the fight…a 30 pound weight difference which is a monster advantage. This is also how guys like Tito and Matt Hughes have made so many opponents look silly…at fight time they are 25 or 30 pounds heavier than weigh in. Not an easy thing to do and I always stayed around my competitive weight, which was healthier for sure but provided no other advantage whatsoever.

[quote]BOSS wrote:
Why cut weight, just stay at your competitive weight year round. It?s a stupid practice for lazy ass people.[/quote]

It’s lazy to gain muscle and strength during the year above your competing weight?

While I don’t think that this method of weight loss is healthy or sane, you obviously don’t understand the concept. Someone much stronger and bigger drops weight (mostly through dehydration) and then gains much of it back by the time they step in the ring. Crazy? Possibly, but not lazy.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
BOSS wrote:
Why cut weight, just stay at your competitive weight year round. It?s a stupid practice for lazy ass people.

It’s lazy to gain muscle and strength during the year above your competing weight?

While I don’t think that this method of weight loss is healthy or sane, you obviously don’t understand the concept. Someone much stronger and bigger drops weight (mostly through dehydration) and then gains much of it back by the time they step in the ring. Crazy? Possibly, but not lazy.[/quote]

I do understand the concept; I had to cut weight on many occasions. What you don?t seem to grasp is the fact that a fighter with a greater degree of mass whether hypertrophy, water weight, adipose tissue is not always a better fighter. The stronger, faster fighter has the advantage even if smaller then his opponent. A question for you buddy: Who punches with more force (harder) a 200Lb fighter with a bench press of 600lb or a 300lb fighter with a bench press of 300Lb? The 200lb fighter still has the advantage albeit slightly when you add mass to the equation. But the point is the fighter who avoids major weight changes before the fight will be a better more proficient fighter for it.
So why not get stronger and faster instead of bigger in a weight class sport?

Instead of using shotgun approaches utilize a properly designed nutrition and training program.

By the way, the weight loss is mostly water weight, so the fighter is dehydrating at a time when he should be preparing both physically and mentally. Sounds stupid to me.

Actually in terms of punching it is not as simple as 200lb guy benching 600, or 300lb guy benching 300. First of all punching is a full body movement, second of all it is much more of an explosive, speed, and power movement rather than a maximum strength one. So if the 300lb guy can bench press 300lbs. faster than the 200lb guy (in your example not very likely but the example of a 200lb MMA fighter benching 600 is about as unlikely as it comes), he will most likely pack a better punch (not considering all the other muscles used, or technique).

Also, in terms of MMA punching is only half the battle. Grappling and fighting on the ground play just as much of a role, and you will not find a single knowledgable person that will argue that of similar skill levels the smaller guy will win. Leverage is a very powerful thing.

I fight competetivley and I had a fight last month. I specifically dropped 18 pounds in one week to move down to a lighter weight class. Sometimes, like in my next fight, I’m going to gain weight to move up in class, all on purpose. I did this because I realized I stood more of a chance defeating the lighter weight class then the heavier ones, so next fight I’ll be prepared. And Im telling you this because in my case, no matter how much weight I lose or gain, the power of my striking isnt effected greatly at all. Its mostly technique and posture for me that makes the difference, and Im a Muay Thai fighter. Same goes for grappling. I’ve found that plyometrics work better for striking power then weight training does.

About the lose weight quickly deal, yea, that guy was right, it was dickhead thing for the CEO to make them do, but ive seen just as bad, if not worse. I know a guy who fought on 3 days notice with a spraigned ankle and wrist. No-one knew about it until just before the fight, but he went through hell like I will in a few weeks.

[quote]BOSS wrote:
A question for you buddy: Who punches with more force (harder) a 200Lb fighter with a bench press of 600lb or a 300lb fighter with a bench press of 300Lb? The 200lb fighter still has the advantage albeit slightly when you add mass to the equation. But the point is the fighter who avoids major weight changes before the fight will be a better more proficient fighter for it.
[/quote]

Your example, analogy, or fairytale that you just used makes no sense at all. Who punches with more force, a smaller stronger person or a heavier weaker person? Brilliant. Why do you even assume that I was talking about someone gaining size with no gain in strength? I even wrote about STRENGTH gains in my first reply to you. I used to be into boxing. I know a little about power needed in punching. Your argument seems to be the same that I have heard many smaller guys use as if they truly believe that they can beat up any guy who is bigger than them. In the real world, we call that “short man’s syndrome”. A 300lbs lifter who can only bench press 300lbs? A 200lbs lifter that can somehow get 600lbs?

How about we use something more realistic. Let’s use a 180lbs guy versus a guy who started out at the same weight, spent the last year gaining 15lbs of muscle and is now MUCH stronger than his opponent at 195lbs…but who drops that weight right before the fight. Now you tell me, who do you honestly think has the advantage assuming that the one who dieted down was able to reconstitute himself before the fight?

Big does not equal slow. Big does not equal weaker. I am sure it makes you feel great to assume this about people, but your punch speed has more to do with your training (and strength) than your body weight. I am not sure why you think someone can gain muscle and strength yet somehow get weaker because of it.

[quote]RED9 wrote:
Actually in terms of punching it is not as simple as 200lb guy benching 600, or 300lb guy benching 300. First of all punching is a full body movement, second of all it is much more of an explosive, speed, and power movement rather than a maximum strength one. So if the 300lb guy can bench press 300lbs. faster than the 200lb guy (in your example not very likely but the example of a 200lb MMA fighter benching 600 is about as unlikely as it comes), he will most likely pack a better punch (not considering all the other muscles used, or technique).

Also, in terms of MMA punching is only half the battle. Grappling and fighting on the ground play just as much of a role, and you will not find a single knowledgable person that will argue that of similar skill levels the smaller guy will win. Leverage is a very powerful thing.[/quote]

You missed my point, re-read my post above buddy. It?s obvious you don?t train athletes, because if you did you would understand the complexities of this issue. I used the numbers above as an example only.
Of course there?s more to MMA then punching!
I was talking about cutting weight not fighting; put it in the right context, Moron!
Look at the big picture.
By the way I weight 226Lb and I bench about 600lb I?m a MMA and a powerlifter.
Most of the fighters I train bench at least 300Lb, 4 can bench press 400Lb, and 1 can bench press 500lb. So a MMA with a 600lb bench press is not unlikely, its just rear.
And I did not say that punching is purely a strength movement, in fact MMA require high levels of strength-speed, speed-strength and maximal strength. Maximal strength is the foundation with which all other qualities rely on.

Your small guy verse bigger guy statement is flowed, just ask the Graces (spelling is probably wrong). Read there book Brazilian Jiu-jitsu theory and technique, and then will talk about your lack of knowledge.

You need to read more, below are excellent articles by Charles Staley on this very topic:
Read it and learn.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460360

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/153/

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/57/

http://www.dragondoor.com/cstaley01.pdf

Professor X
I agree with most of your post, except this part:

Big does not equal slow. Big does not equal weaker. I am sure it makes you feel great to assume this about people, but your punch speed has more to do with your training (and strength) than your body weight. I am not sure why you think someone can gain muscle and strength yet somehow get weaker because of it.

I don?t think that nor did I say anything to suggest I did, Re-read my post bud.

About your big guy verse littler guy theory, read the Book Brazilian Jiu-jitsu theory and technique. Its funny when big fat asses think they can defeat anyone, because of there weight. Just watch the early years of the UFC before they had weight classes and you?ll see a common occurrence, the small more skilled fighters prevailed over there heavily muscled or fat ass counter parts. Does the Gracias (almost always smaller and weaker then there opponents, there words not mine) wring a bell, or how about the 190Lb Vitor Belfort defeating the 350Lb fighter Scot ?the pit bull? Ferozo (spelling is probably wrong). Just because a person?s big doe?s not necessary mean they can fight or that they can defeat smaller men, the reveres is often the case, just ask the Gracias.

By the why, I?m not little, I?m 6? and weight about 220lbs at 9% body fat.

So, how is it even possible to loose 25 lbs in 24 hours? I’m just curious…


JMB

[quote]JMB wrote:
So, how is it even possible to loose 25 lbs in 24 hours? I’m just curious…


JMB[/quote]

I have had to drop weight fast, but it was never quite that much. In fact, without diuretics use, I don’t believe it is possible. With prescription diuretics, use of the sauna, and promoting sweating, you can drop over 20lbs. That should tell you how healthy it is as well.

Boss, just like I misread your post a little bit, you have surely mistaken mine. There is no reason for you to insult and attack me.

If you get it down to the base we are pretty much in agreement besides a few minor things. First of all, even you claimed 600lb bench at 200lb was “rare” (rear). “Unlikely” and “rare” are synonymns. By you being 230 AND a power lifter with a 600lb. BP, I stand by my claim. A 200lb fighter benching 600lbs. is unlikely.

And secondly, just like you think my small guy v.s. big guy statement is “flawed” (flowed), I happen to think yours is a bit flawed as well. I said that at similar skill levels the big guy will win. Whether it be Royce, Rickson, Royler, Renzo, etc. they are the most elite BJJers in the world using at that time (early UFC) a relatively unkown martial art against fat, out of shape scrubs that probably didn’t have a clue what BJJ was. Seems to be pretty much the two extremes of skill level to me. I mean hell, even though Royce eventually won the fight, Kimo in all his fat, clueless, out of shape glory beat Royce up so bad he couldn’t continue to the final.

I have read a lot about the Gracies (yes you did spell it wrong), and like I said earlier the only way they could compete w/ such giant fighters was because their skill level is out of this world. There is a reason that UFC and Pride have weight classes.