Ugh I Bench as Much as I Squat

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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and this is from an article with strength coach Mike Boyle, Back squats

As a former powerlifter, it was tough for me to give up on traditional back squats. But as a strength and conditioning coach, it was one of the best things I’ve ever done.

Back pain nearly disappeared among our athletes when we switched to front squats. Along with back pain went hours of me screaming “head up, chest up!” as some of my athletes struggled with technique.

The front squat is much harder to do wrong than the back squat, which is why I use it instead of the more popular version of the exercise.

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[quote]port81 wrote:
this is a bodybuilding forum, not a powerlifting one, if an exercise feels detrimental to your body then its probably a good idea to lay off of it, i suggested finding alternative leg exercises because they may be better for his body, i dont imagine you would have a problem squatting correctly at 5’3"

but even if he fixes his form he may develop some serious injuries due to how his body is made, his problem may be that his body is not built in a way that a heavy load pressing down on his spine works for him, since were not all alike then some exercises may not be best for everybody, and whats wrong with switching to something like front squats, many coaches feel that is a much better exercise for leg development due to the decreased load on the spine, (that may even fix those imbalances…) fighting through “bad” pain is a great indication that an exercise may not be worth whatever results you can get from it, maybe switching things around is the best advice for him[/quote]

Do you have some sort of problem with reading comprehension? All I said was that he needs to figure out what the problem is, then he needs to work to fix it and look to alternatives if necessary. Ignoring issues with mobility and form are not going to get better if left “undiagnosed”.

Maybe he’d be better off with front squats. Or hack squats. Or fucking bosu ball squats with resistance bands. I don’t know. Its just stupid to say that he’s “not built to squat” without seeing what his atrocious squat even looks like.

And, at 5’3 I happen to have all kinds of trouble squatting, but this thread isn’t about me, so why the fuck are you bringing up my height or my sport?

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if ur knees are jerking and moving all over the place news flash

you are too weak,

is it sad and embarrassing that its happening to you at 135? absolutely, start with the bar and do it right this time, and work your way up like anyone else

while stretching to increase mobility

too lazy to do it? then dont, no one gives a shit

major spine problems? go visit your doctor

otherwise just stick with the beach body routine, it sounds like thats exactly what you are accustomed too

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Sounds like you suck shit at squatting normally.

Learn how to squat out wide and onto a box, you’ll get great ham and glute development. (Plus a rockin’ strong posterior chain).

Use Front squats for quad development.

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If you do not have any structural problems the only advice I can give is practice practice practice and more practice. Although the squat may seem simple at first glance, it is a highly technical lift.

Just a glance at your problems, it sounds like you have trouble staying tight in the hole. As a result your knees get all wobbly, your weight starts going all over the place, your back does not stay tight and you cannot apply force efficently (It’s like trying to push something with a wet piece of spaghetti).

Without seeing your current squat form I have no real way of critiquing, but here are a few things that have helped me stay tight in the hole:

  1. Moving my grip closer on the bar
  2. Filling my belly with air and holding it in on the descend and ascend
  3. Looking foward
  4. Keeping my weight even on my foot (maybe even slightly on the heel if you are squatting rock bottom)
  5. Really keeping my lower back tight before the descend
  6. Practice

Hope this has helped

26

buckeye girl, there is no reason for your attitude, im not attacking you, im saying that putting the bar in front of him instead of behind may be the best change he can make and if he works on front squats instead then it may correct those issues, im trying to bring suggestions to AccipiterQ that may help him, if you dont like it feel free to give your own opinions, but make them about the topic, not me, dont attack me to help make yourself feel tougher, im giving him article quotes in order to help validate some of my reasoning,

as far as his problem, he mentioned his spine hurting and leaning too much, the issue with his spine could be from… guess what? “spinal loading” hard to figure that one out… and his knees could be going in different directions due to his body trying to protect its self from spine problems
again from coach Mike Boyle,

Back pain has three root causes as it relates to lifting. Torque (forward lean), compression (high spinal loads), and flexion are what cause back injuries. Front squats lessen torque, compression, and flexion, and are therefore inherently safer.
The truth is that front squats decrease spinal load and improve back position ? two positives in my book. My athletes and clients haven’t done a back squat in about seven years. We have very little back pain. We still front squat relatively heavy. My college players front squat between 300 and 350 pounds to powerlifting depth at bodyweights of 180-200 with no wraps and usually a Velcro belt.

and a suggestion to stop squatting is not stupid if it is going to save him from injuries, being stupid is ignoring signs that an exercise may be wrong for you, if you have problems squatting then you may want to look at alternatives as well, squats are great exercises for some people and not so much for others, its as simple as that

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[quote]port81 wrote:
buckeye girl, there is no reason for your attitude, im not attacking you, im saying that putting the bar in front of him instead of behind may be the best change he can make and if he works on front squats instead then it may correct those issues, im trying to bring suggestions to AccipiterQ that may help him, if you dont like it feel free to give your own opinions, but make them about the topic, not me, dont attack me to help make yourself feel tougher, im giving him article quotes in order to help validate some of my reasoning,

as far as his problem, he mentioned his spine hurting and leaning too much, the issue with his spine could be from… guess what? “spinal loading” hard to figure that one out… and his knees could be going in different directions due to his body trying to protect its self from spine problems
again from coach Mike Boyle,

Back pain has three root causes as it relates to lifting. Torque (forward lean), compression (high spinal loads), and flexion are what cause back injuries. Front squats lessen torque, compression, and flexion, and are therefore inherently safer.
The truth is that front squats decrease spinal load and improve back position ? two positives in my book. My athletes and clients haven’t done a back squat in about seven years. We have very little back pain. We still front squat relatively heavy. My college players front squat between 300 and 350 pounds to powerlifting depth at bodyweights of 180-200 with no wraps and usually a Velcro belt.

and a suggestion to stop squatting is not stupid if it is going to save him from injuries, being stupid is ignoring signs that an exercise may be wrong for you, if you have problems squatting then you may want to look at alternatives as well, squats are great exercises for some people and not so much for others, its as simple as that

[/quote]

And she’s not saying that he SHOULDNT do front squats instead, shes saying that he needs to figure out whether his issue is structural or if its due to form/weakness/imbalances/poor mobility. NOWHERE in this thread did she say anything about how he HAD to back squat.

Mike Boyle trains ATHLETES. This is the bodybuilding section, remember? BTW, have you ever SEEN Mike Boyle?

I remember the first time I ever squatted. I hated it. It hurt. Theyre uncomfortable. Theyre supposed to be. Thats the nature of the beast. I know a lot of scrawny fuckers who bench what they can squat who avoid squats because of “bad backs and knees” and “structural issues” and the reality is that the only structural issues most of them have is a severe strength deficiency between their legs. If youre a big guy who has put in the time to know what works and what doesnt, then by all means, do what you know works for your body. If you are a newbie who avoids certain exercises because they are uncomfortable under the guise of “structural issues”, then you are a pussy. Plain and simple.

I am interested to see how much mass you have put onto your legs by avoiding back squats Port81 since you seem to be so keen on that being the best and only choice of action for this guy not knowing his structure, what sort of imbalances or issues he has, or anything besides that his squat form sucks and that they are uncomfortable.

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I would suggest seeing an active release provider. A lot of “structural issues” and “bad backs” are inflammation caused by years of scar tissue build-up. I didn’t take the time to read every post to see if someone has mentioned this already but I think it can make a huge difference. It’s not something you have to do forever either. Depending on the severity you can progress quickly to a point that you can maintain mobility with routine stretching on your own.

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i would suggest doing something else also. i dont do backsquats, i do legpress and hacksquats. i still add weight to my frame and to the lift, go figure.

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the most ive ever squatted was 455, i used to do sets of 6 with 405 and my back killed me, now i focus on other things and my legs have never been better, my legs measure just over 27 inches at their biggest point, and my back has never felt better, since this is a bodybuilding thread, kevin levrone once said in a video that once he quit squatting he could finally develop his legs and alleviate his back pain,

the guy is obviously not a new trainer if he pulls 430 so hes probably been squatting a little while at the least, if his goal is to build a better body then he can do it without squats, i never said people should not squat, i only said its not the best exercise for some people given the risk to benefit ratio, im only offering advice to him, he doesnt have to take it and neither do you, but sometimes its a good thing for someone to give an alternate response than just squat more, and since you want to attack Mike Boyle, you should read his articles,

he says he doesnt look like he trains because he cant train as hard any longer due to too many injuries and too much pain from doing things he shouldnt have done in the gym, and Coach Dos is a pretty big guy that could squat quite a bit yet he focuses on alternative exercises as well, all im saying is that if he doesnt want to squat then he doesnt have to he may need to change his form but he needs some in person coaching on form more than he can get from an online response, he should stick to other things at least until he gets that, and he wont lose anything not squatting a while, your muscles dont know if they are squatting or leg pressing or doing leg extensions, they just contract and relax,

if you improve on the exercises youre doing then your muscles will grow assuming youre eating enough, after training 8 years i went from 155 at 6’1" to over 245 at the same height, i cut a little bodyfat to get down to a little over 230 now and my bodyfat is measuring in around 15 percent… and the biggest thing ive learned is that progress is progress whether it comes from a squat or a leg press, getting stronger and eating gets you bigger, never risk an injury doing an exercise you dont feel comfortable with, as far as squatting, if he is insistent on that, hold the bar lower, trying to rack it under your traps and above your shoulder blades with chest pushed out, dont put your legs out too wide unless you are powerlifting and work on your ankles, being taller means you will lean forward more when you squat unless you rack lower and get your chest up and out and use a wide enough grip to get the bar lower on your back

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Yep, I agree on the front squat. Hell, do em on the smith machine. It sounds like a painful sight the way you describe your squat form. Bodyweight squats so you can learn the form groove, maybe?

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Try front squats but in the style described at:

Hell doing these with just the bar is a pain in the ass. Progress to 25’s if you feel like a little girl, but they are damn effective due to the increased bloodflow. In addition, the form of the front squat as mentioned by port81 is much less stressful on the spine.

There are a lot of other ways to increase size/strength in the legs which do not require back squats. They are dangerous for some body types and should also be avoided if you are just not devoted enough to work on getting your body to the point that you can handle them (i.e. stretching of the shoulders, hamstrings, ankle mobility work, spinal erector stability, glute activation, etc.). Single leg squats (not pistols) put a stress on the leg that closely resemble the back squat. Doing these is a great exercise and will teach your muscles to fire properly as well as giving you a good bit of core stability.

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I have a really messed up back from football injuries and not healing them properly, and the specialists said I should have rods put in my spine. After that I squatted 465 a year later at 18. I don’t think it’s your back that’s the problem.

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[quote]north dakota wrote:
I have a really messed up back from football injuries and not healing them properly, and the specialists said I should have rods put in my spine. After that I squatted 465 a year later at 18. I don’t think it’s your back that’s the problem. [/quote]

You didn’t squat 465…nice trying to get cool points though.

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[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
north dakota wrote:
I have a really messed up back from football injuries and not healing them properly, and the specialists said I should have rods put in my spine. After that I squatted 465 a year later at 18. I don’t think it’s your back that’s the problem.

You didn’t squat 465…nice trying to get cool points though.[/quote]

x2

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[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
north dakota wrote:
I have a really messed up back from football injuries and not healing them properly, and the specialists said I should have rods put in my spine. After that I squatted 465 a year later at 18. I don’t think it’s your back that’s the problem.

You didn’t squat 465…nice trying to get cool points though.[/quote]

Probably way, but probably not ass to grass.

37

Work on the front squat, strengthen your quadriceps, then cycle in the back squat after 8 weeks of front squatting and you should have no trouble with performing the movement.

Also, post a vid of your back squat. If your leaning excessively forward, then it can definitely increase the torque on the lower back.

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[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Try front squats but in the style described at:

Hell doing these with just the bar is a pain in the ass. Progress to 25’s if you feel like a little girl, but they are damn effective due to the increased bloodflow. In addition, the form of the front squat as mentioned by port81 is much less stressful on the spine.

There are a lot of other ways to increase size/strength in the legs which do not require back squats. They are dangerous for some body types and should also be avoided if you are just not devoted enough to work on getting your body to the point that you can handle them (i.e. stretching of the shoulders, hamstrings, ankle mobility work, spinal erector stability, glute activation, etc.). Single leg squats (not pistols) put a stress on the leg that closely resemble the back squat. Doing these is a great exercise and will teach your muscles to fire properly as well as giving you a good bit of core stability.[/quote]

For the last time people.

No one is disputing that you can get big legs without back squatting.

But honestly, if this guy is so fucked up that he can’t squat comfortably with 135 lbs, then do you really think telling him to just go front squat is going to make a difference or even be safe? Think about it. The squat is a movement that humans are built to do. He cant do it. This isnt an issue of “find me a new exercise”, this is an issue of this kid having some sort of dysfunction that needs to be addressed in order to ensure continued progress and health.

The OP is what…5’10"? I doubt hes having any of the structural difficulties that lifters who are in the mid 6’s are going to have. Even freakishly tall people with some lifting experience can squat the baby weights that this guy is struggling with. His issues are likely related to activation, mobility, flexibility, strength imbalances, form, or some combination of those. Changing the movement isnt going to fix those and may even leave him worse off.

Holy Fucking Moses have you people ever have an original thought in your lives or do you just regurgitate shit without thinking first all of the time?

BTW, no one was knocking Mike Boyle Port, but you got after BG for being a powerlifter in the bodybuilding section and then started regurgitating quotes from a guy who has never trained a bodybuilder in his life. 27" inch legs at the largest point is not very large for someone who is 6’1"…thats about where mine were taping out at that 5’6.5" at their largest. Perhaps you should get squattin.

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[quote]gainera2582 wrote:
Work on the front squat, strengthen your quadriceps, then cycle in the back squat after 8 weeks of front squatting and you should have no trouble with performing the movement.

Also, post a vid of your back squat. If your leaning excessively forward, then it can definitely increase the torque on the lower back. [/quote]

Only way to back squat in 8 weeks is with all the mobility, stretching, and activation work I mentioned. Still nothing wrong with just front squatting.

With all the problems you’re having, I’d recommend that you seriously consider avoiding back squats until A) You focus on the above mentioned work (refer to some of the excellent mobility articles on this website), and B) your 10rm max bench is equal to the weight you use on your deep 10rm front squat. C) You should also work to get 10 reps of single leg squats.

The light weight front squats I recomended earlier hurts like a mother F#ck and puts some decent size on.

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[quote]Stronghold wrote:
…Changing the movement isnt going to fix those and may even leave him worse off.

Holy Fucking Moses have you people ever have an original thought in your lives or do you just regurgitate shit without thinking first all of the time?

…Perhaps you should get squattin.[/quote]

Did you even read what I wrote? Part of what you quoted says:

"BulletproofTiger wrote:
…They (Back squats) are dangerous for some body types and should also be avoided if you are just not devoted enough to work on getting your body to the point that you can handle them (i.e. stretching of the shoulders, hamstrings, ankle mobility work, spinal erector stability, glute activation, etc.). Single leg squats (not pistols) put a stress on the leg that closely resemble the back squat. Doing these is a great exercise and will teach your muscles to fire properly as well as giving you a good bit of core stability.[/quote]

How the F#ck are you going to bag on my advice without even reading it? It’s not regurgitation at all. I brought up something totally new. How would you even consider it regurgitation? It’s much better advice than trying to suggest:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
…Perhaps you should get squattin.[/quote]