UFC Buying PRIDE

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Supposedly the new CEO of Pride will be an executive from the FujiTV company [/quote]

Hopefully he’ll bring back Chairman Kaga
to be the “Dana White” of Japanese MMA.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Once again I ask, how was it competition? When did either league so much as make a scratch in the other’s market share? [/quote]

I don’t think Dana White would see market share as the only form of competition.

Fedor is in Pride along with a number of people that the UFC would want in their brand. Also, Cro Cop and others fought in Pride for a long while and would have obviously gone straight to UFC if it were the only Big time competition for MMA.

It is competition and there have been plenty of debates over the years about which one has the better fighters.

To me, that is competition.

[quote]Man O’ War wrote:

It is competition and there have been plenty of debates over the years about which one has the better fighters.

To me, that is competition.[/quote]

Fighting is a business, and internet arguments don’t pay the bills. EliteXC poses a far bigger threat to the UFC than Pride ever did. To mainstream America, fighting in Japan was equivalent to being dead. Being on TUF, however, makes you a household name in America.

[quote]RagingBull wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Supposedly the new CEO of Pride will be an executive from the FujiTV company

Hopefully he’ll bring back Chairman Kaga
to be the “Dana White” of Japanese MMA.[/quote]

Yes! They could have a Kitchen Stadium Death Match, the loser of the MMA fight becomes the secret ingredient for the Iron Chefs.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Fighting is a business, and internet arguments don’t pay the bills. EliteXC poses a far bigger threat to the UFC than Pride ever did. To mainstream America, fighting in Japan was equivalent to being dead. Being on TUF, however, makes you a household name in America.[/quote]

Having Fedor in the UFC would pay the bills a little easier for Dana and co.

[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Having Fedor in the UFC would pay the bills a little easier for Dana and co. [/quote]

Dana White approached Fedor when Fedor fought in Vegas. The UFC did not sign Fedor because he charged too much.

How would having him in the UFC make paying the bills easier for Dana White? In light of the fact that White did not sign Fedor, and in light of the fact that Fedor charges so much money per fight, are you totally talking out of your ass, or what?

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
How would having him in the UFC make paying the bills easier for Dana White? In light of the fact that White did not sign Fedor, and in light of the fact that Fedor charges so much money per fight, are you totally talking out of your ass, or what? [/quote]

Totally talking out of my ass. You got me there.

Well if Pride didn’t exist as competition to the UFC…

  1. Fedor would have had to come into the UFC at square 1 and work his way up like every other fighter has.

  2. Fighters like Cro Cop, Fedor and etc would not have been so expensive to sign as their credability would not be so high if there wasn’t a rival league.

I think my statement that Pride is competition to the UFC is correct. Pride is a rival code and is creating superstar reputations for Cro Cop, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva and co.

If the UFC was unchallenged as the #1 MMA brand out there, the 3 names mentioned above would already be in the UFC and fighting for significantly smaller contracts than the ones that Dana has to offer for them to defect from Pride.

So… If UFC can position itself as the unchallenged leader of MMA, the good guys will naturally flock to it rather than exploring their options with other MMA Brands.

[quote]Man O’ War wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Fighting is a business, and internet arguments don’t pay the bills. EliteXC poses a far bigger threat to the UFC than Pride ever did. To mainstream America, fighting in Japan was equivalent to being dead. Being on TUF, however, makes you a household name in America.

Having Fedor in the UFC would pay the bills a little easier for Dana and co. [/quote]

I really don’t think so. Who the hell is Fedor to the American mainstream? I understand where you are coming from, that yes the hardcore MMA fans want to see these match ups and will be thrilled about it. I know I am. However, the 1 million people buying UFC PPV’s are buying it to see the TUF fighters and coaches they have grown to love from free TV. Fedor just doesn’t register with them. And as Calilaw alluded to, Fedor has made it clear that unless he is guaranteed a straight “show up to fight” fee of over a million he will sit at home and spend time with his wife and kids, which is what he really wants to do anyways. Why would they pay him that much when they can pay the deaf guy from TUF who punches like a blind man $3000 and generate infinitely more buzz amongst their bread and butter consumer? Marketing these Pride fighters is a huge obstacle to overcome, and it will be interesting to see how they pull it off.

So yes, the Fertititas controlling Pride does mean a significant portion of the MMA world is under one roof. But I really don’t see it having a negative effect on market competitiveness. In fact, they aligning of Pride and UFC has brought about the conglomeration of K-1, BoDog, Strikeforce, and EliteXC. Two very large powerful bodies fighting for the best fighters will cause a war for fighter contracts and media attention the likes of which MMA has never seen before. It’s like Pepsi vs Coca-Cola now.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I really don’t think so. Who the hell is Fedor to the American mainstream? [/quote]

Yeah, I didn’t consider that seeing I am from Australia. It’s not a bad thing but you guys generally don’t look much further than your own shores.

Most guys I know over here that know stuff about MMA are right into both Pride and UFC equally.

[quote]
I understand where you are coming from, that yes the hardcore MMA fans want to see these match ups and will be thrilled about it. I know I am. However, the 1 million people buying UFC PPV’s are buying it to see the TUF fighters and coaches they have grown to love from free TV. Fedor just doesn’t register with them. And as Calilaw alluded to, Fedor has made it clear that unless he is guaranteed a straight “show up to fight” fee of over a million he will sit at home and spend time with his wife and kids, which is what he really wants to do anyways. Why would they pay him that much when they can pay the deaf guy from TUF who punches like a blind man $3000 and generate infinitely more buzz amongst their bread and butter consumer? Marketing these Pride fighters is a huge obstacle to overcome, and it will be interesting to see how they pull it off.[/quote]

I find the majority of those TUF guys pretty boring to watch. TUF 2 with the heavyweights was not worth watching every second episode. The Heavyweight bouts were boring and a disgrace. The middleweights were very good to watch though.

I understand the TUF guys are what has really given the UFC a boost, but Fedor would give the UFC Heavyweight a lot of credability. Silvia did a lot of damage to the Heavyweights and Couture has made it interesting again.

I think the general public would want to see the best in the business lock horns in UFC.

In the background there was competition between the UFC and Pride. But it was competition American fans didn’t know existed. They can’t care about what they don’t know, and the UFC was happy make sure they didn’t know.
At this point it doesn’t seem to matter if they have the big Pride vs. UFC matches.

The hard-core fans want to see these match-ups. Most of their fan base doesn’t know who the Pride fighters are and it doesn’t seem that care to try to find out. The UFC has succeeded in America without all the best fighters. It probably won’t matter in the future. The international guys can’t be on TUF, they don’t speak English well or at all and I get the impression that people would rather see Americans.

The Fertittas are keeping Pride in Japan. They recognize that Japan is a good market for mma(and combat sports), has been in the past. If Pride disapeared from Japan, there would be an oppurtunity for something to take its place, then another Pride-like production would pop up and then the UFC would have competition(for fighters) all over again.

That might not happen if the UFC was like MLB getting all the best players in the world and paying much more than anywhere else. Though if that happened they would have to live with the possiblity that their divisions would be stacked with foreigners. Possibly having no American as champ in any division. I don’t know if that would sell.

[quote]otoko wrote:
In the background there was competition between the UFC and Pride. But it was competition American fans didn’t know existed. They can’t care about what they don’t know, and the UFC was happy make sure they didn’t know.
At this point it doesn’t seem to matter if they have the big Pride vs. UFC matches.
[/quote]
I tend to forget that being from Aus. I just want to see the best match ups but that doesn’t necessarily sell on PPV.

You raise some good points.

The fans seem to be pretty happy that Cro Cop has come into the UFC though so the foreigners may be welcome. Although I would guess that zero US champions wouldn’t look very good for the UFC.

[quote]Man O’ War wrote:

The fans seem to be pretty happy that Cro Cop has come into the UFC though so the foreigners may be welcome. Although I would guess that zero US champions wouldn’t look very good for the UFC. [/quote]

That’s true. Mirko was a fan favorite in Japan also. He has the style that people want to see.
One part of me thinks that foreigners would be welcome, though I do not know if they would be embraced. Of course that is the impression I get when listening to the live fans at the shows. I know they shouldn’t be taken as representing American fans in general. I don’t get a chance to see another side(excluding hard-core mma fans).

IF they combined rosters, the UFC and Pride for one org and they fought it out you could end up with something like this:
LW champ: Sakurai or Gomi or Kawajiri(all Japanese)
WW champ: GSP(Canadian), Aoki(Japanese)
MW champ: SIlva(Brazil), Filho(Brazil),
LHW champ: Rua(Brazil)
HW champ: Crocop(Croatia), Fedor(Russia), Nog(Brazil), Hunto!(New Zealand)

[quote]otoko wrote:
Man O’ War wrote:

The fans seem to be pretty happy that Cro Cop has come into the UFC though so the foreigners may be welcome. Although I would guess that zero US champions wouldn’t look very good for the UFC.

That’s true. Mirko was a fan favorite in Japan also. He has the style that people want to see.
One part of me thinks that foreigners would be welcome, though I do not know if they would be embraced. Of course that is the impression I get when listening to the live fans at the shows. I know they shouldn’t be taken as representing American fans in general. I don’t get a chance to see another side(excluding hard-core mma fans).

IF they combined rosters, the UFC and Pride for one org and they fought it out you could end up with something like this:
LW champ: Sakurai or Gomi or Kawajiri(all Japanese)
WW champ: GSP(Canadian), Aoki(Japanese)
MW champ: SIlva(Brazil), Filho(Brazil),
LHW champ: Rua(Brazil)
HW champ: Crocop(Croatia), Fedor(Russia), Nog(Brazil), Hunto!(New Zealand)
[/quote]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the International title holders would matter. At the moment the UFC has 2 of 5 being non US (Silva and GSP) and that doesn’t seem to have negative impact.

[quote]otoko wrote:
hem much more organized.

The NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA are all American sports leagues. They don’t run an international league with games around the planet. That is fine because those sports have a long tradition in North America, and can be said to be North American sports.

Okay, golf was invented in Scottland, so it is a Scottish game, NOT North American. As for all the others with the exception of the NFL, the NBA, PGA, and MLB take players from all over the world. The U.S. is the entertainment capital of the world. Anybody who wants to make a name for themself comes to America.

I think some of you are underestimating American MMA fans.

Americans know about Pride.

[quote]titopuente wrote:
otoko wrote:
hem much more organized.

The NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA are all American sports leagues. They don’t run an international league with games around the planet. That is fine because those sports have a long tradition in North America, and can be said to be North American sports.

Okay, golf was invented in Scottland, so it is a Scottish game, NOT North American. As for all the others with the exception of the NFL, the NBA, PGA, and MLB take players from all over the world. The U.S. is the entertainment capital of the world. Anybody who wants to make a name for themself comes to America. [/quote]

Well the PGA tour is in America and golf does have a long tradition in America. So Golf is Scottish.

[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
I think some of you are underestimating American MMA fans.

Americans know about Pride.
[/quote]

Of course some Americans know about Pride. They got less than 10,000 fans at the gate and 30,000ppv buys in America.
What is there to underestimate?