T Nation

UFC 165

anyone watching? Jones vs Gustafsson is turning out to be a pretty good fight.

I think those judges were wrong. Especially that one that scored it so lopsided. I give it to the swede. Very infuriating call.

I had Gus winning the first three but I had a feeling he wouldn’t get the nod from judges, just seen enough of these fights, shit like Shogun - Machida I comes to mind every time… Not equally bad of a robbery though, Jones did some nice work landing shots to the body which eventually paid off as Gus slowed down and lowered his hands to protect his midsection and eating a bunch of headkicks as a result. Still I can’t help but to feel JBJ won the fight on those fucking pushkicks to the lead leg, in my experience unless you fuck someones knee up with those they don’t really cause all too much damage or hurt that much, they work great for controlling the distance and frustrating your opponent by fucking up his timing, but they shouldn’t really be favored too highly on the scoring… I don’t think theres a rematch coming though, UFC will do anything the protect their golden boy and they need to cash in on Glover as well before he gets a chance to eat another haymaker from some fighter not in top 10.

Barao’s kick was almost as awesome as his reaction to it, looked like he couldn’t believe he landed the fucking thing :smiley:

This weekend had (still kinda has as I’m venting this writ) four potential peaks of awesome:

Pyrates getting 5%

AFD getting 5%

FDP not getting 5%

Bones vs the Mauler >9000%

And what indeed turned out to be an awesome clash of styles concluded with a steaming pile of deucesion.

There’s an unwritten rule about having to beat the champion convincingly.
However, this was never something the Gods of War taught us early in history.
Neither the UFC not the canadian athletic comission run any policy like this.
Absolutely no pinky swear between Greg Jackson and Eric Del Fierro (“Alexander shall eiher beat you into the living death or lose”)

But what DOES exist is something a German calls “vorauseilender Gehorsam”- anticipatory obedience.

A beautiful specimen like Jon Jones, with Gawd’s solemn words on his chest and Nike’s gold-gleaming banner on his back, raising his arms like a true champ after every round - how could you not give him at least four rounds … even when his face looks like a Double Whooper that’s been kidnapped and facefuck-raped by the tag team of Ariel Castro and Ronald McDonald.

What I am saying is:
A sparkling champ with lots of media buzz behind him will always have the judges on his side and this rule is just stating the reality of shitty judges being shitty.

The Mauler won a fantastic fight.
Let’s hope he learns, rekindles his hate, sharpens his skills and wins the rematch.
Let’s do it in Sweden.

Gustafssons needs to stick to handboll and innebandy. SWEDEN SUCKS!!!

But more seriously, given the recent memory of cheating scandals in a few sports (FIFA,MLB,NBA(ref)), is it possible these judges had been told “no matter what - Jones wins this one”?

JBJ has Nike and Gatorade on his glutes while my man runs around in tighty-blueies that say ‘BAD BOY’ on them? Obviously there is a huge discrepancy in invested interests between the two fighters. With all that pressure, is it possible DW has someone sent to talk to the judges pre-fight?

so let me get this straight, the first fighter Jon Jones doesn’t have a significant reach and height advantage over he has extreme trouble with?

Color me shocked.

I thought jones won that, not even close. watched again before on mute and still thought Jones dominated.

Gus was barely conscious in the fifth and Jones landed the bigger strikes, a few stiff jabs and right hands were all Gus landed.

I think people have bias because they want to see Jones lose and when Gus stuffed those takedowns and landed a few shots people kinda selectively viewed that fight.

Just watch on mute and look at who landed what, jones landed hard elbows, uppercuts, knees, head kicks and lots of hard leg kicks. Gus landed lesser shots and was in a really bad state in the fourth and fifth.

Also all the haters on sherdog were “shut down” by schaub. Good for him.

[quote]Claudan wrote:
Gustafssons needs to stick to handboll and innebandy. SWEDEN SUCKS!!!

But more seriously, given the recent memory of cheating scandals in a few sports (FIFA,MLB,NBA(ref)), is it possible these judges had been told “no matter what - Jones wins this one”?

JBJ has Nike and Gatorade on his glutes while my man runs around in tighty-blueies that say ‘BAD BOY’ on them? Obviously there is a huge discrepancy in invested interests between the two fighters. With all that pressure, is it possible DW has someone sent to talk to the judges pre-fight?

[/quote]

No - Dana can’t stand Jones after he made him cancel an event. Look at some of the remarks he makes about Bones. Additionally, imagine if Bones had lost what the ticket and PPV sales would have been for the re-match.

first time i watched the fight i thought the mauler won, if not convincingly. I was pretty shocked with the decision actually. When i rewatched the fight most of the rounds were pretty close, and i could see how a judge could go either way. Gus’s best round was almost the fourth but then the last 30 seconds happened. But i dont’ think gus was as hurt as everyone was making him out to be, i think he was just tired and kind of lanks around like that cause he’s tall, upon the second watching many of jones kicks and elbows didn’t land nearly as flush as i thought they did. Still, it was a good fight. would be nice if this ‘loss’ brought jones ego down a peg, but i doubt it he’s already drank his own self hype kool-aid.

That was a great fight.

I thought Gus took rounds 1 and 3. I thought Jones took round 2 by a hair, and rounds 4 and 5 pretty clearly. That, combined with the fact that he had Gus in, or near, trouble in rounds 4 and 5, combined with the Compustat statistics (Jones landed more total strikes and more significant strikes) makes me think it was the right decision. A damn close one, but I think the judges got it right. (But hey, what do I know?)

A rematch could easily go either way, though. I’d like to see Jones fight Texeira and then (assuming he wins, which I think he will) rematch Alex.

[quote]Damici wrote:
That was a great fight.

I thought Gus took rounds 1 and 3. I thought Jones took round 2 by a hair, and rounds 4 and 5 pretty clearly. That, combined with the fact that he had Gus in, or near, trouble in rounds 4 and 5, combined with the Compustat statistics (Jones landed more total strikes and more significant strikes) makes me think it was the right decision. A damn close one, but I think the judges got it right. (But hey, what do I know?)

A rematch could easily go either way, though. I’d like to see Jones fight Texeira and then (assuming he wins, which I think he will) rematch Alex.[/quote]

I agree although I had the first round a draw. It was an awesome fight but I do believe there is no question that Jones deserved the victory. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t awfully close but he did deserve the win. He seemed very hesitant though, his eyes at times had the deer in head lights look.

Regarding the re-match, with a decision this close I believe Gustafsson deserves an immediate re-match. It was too close to give another fighter a shot at Jones first…

Had Gustafsson not gassed in the 5th he would have gotten a draw or a win.

I was under the impression that Texiera had the next shot. I think the only time that fighters get immediate rematch rights (and trump another fighter’s already agreed upon title shot) is if the champ loses a very close decision (at least those are the only instances that I can remember off hand).

^ah, I did not know that. Thanks. Either way, it was just my opinion :slight_smile:
I think Gustafsson deserves the immediate re-match however I can see where that is not going to happen. The unfortunate thing about this is that if Texiera wins, you have the immediate re-match between Jones and Texiera before we Gustafsson has another shot…

And should Jones loose again, then it will be Gustafsson - Texiera and so on.

Ah, well, guess if I want to see the re-match anytime soon I need to root for Bones :slight_smile:

Didnt get to see it but figured it was gonna be knockdown, drag out. Both fighters are talented. Jones needed this to test his metal. He’s an outstanding fighter but hasnt fought anyone that was in his class until now. I understand he took some good shots but he didnt choke when it comes down to it.

In sports like boxing and mma, most often than not if you don’t just completely dominant and smash the champion 9 times outta 10 your not gonna get the win. Gus is an awesome fighter as well and i knew he was gonna take it to Bones. This was a monumental moment for both fighters to work harder and improve. I love mma and if i was 10 - 15 years younger, watch out. LOL

They should have a masters level of mma so you can fight liddell and couture to your hearts content!!

Just out of curiosity, assuming Bones beats Texeira and decides to move up to 265, how much of a chance do you guys give him after what we just saw on Saturday? Not to forget that Gus definitely has some skill standing, but considering how much trouble JBJ had the first time he couldn’t use his reach to dominate the striking exchanges how do you see him stacking up against the likes of Overeem, JDS or Miocic, all being tall huge guys who can dish out unbelievable punishment.

I’m having hard time seeing him make an impressive run after that fight, but who knows if he goes on the same horse meat diet Reem went through and goes up from chicken leg Bones to being a legit 265 what might happen.

Well I’m not arrogant enough to say I’m anywhere near the level of these fighters, but I’ve experienced myself how easy it is to appear dominant against opposition you have a size and reach advantage on and how much more terrifying and frustrating it is to fight guys your size or bigger.

It’s very easy to bully someone, not so easy to fight someone.

Obviously JBJ is talented but I think he’s been fed a soft food diet, Gust was the first opponent he didnt have a wealth of advantages over and he looked in dire straits.

So I do think he will have a very hard time at 265, but he might get better.

Exactly.
Nobody denies Jones is an outright fantastic fighter, but there is, especially at this point, no discussion about his ability to use reach against smaller dudes. That’s his comfort zone.

Something people don’t seem to get, probably because it’s very rare in MMA, how great Jones’ kicking is.
Power wise it’s not terribly good (he WILL get much better there) , but he really excels at fluently implementing long distance kicking.
At a range where the other one -usually!- cannot attack at all.
Rushing in sets up a counter, maybe his biggest strength; staying outside only means he’ll get into cat and mouse mode, happily toying with your kneejoint like with yarn, tapping your confidence like Blacula tapping dat white ass.

And light heavyweight has traditionally the undergrown heavies, it is a slow division, speed wise. Many guys favour a plodding style that plays into that sort of kicking. At lightweight and below, these kicks are pretty much unimportant.

Deprived of his reach advantage, he’s still a great fighter, we’ve seen that vs Gustaffson. It’s just not the whole package.

[quote]AsaAkira13 wrote:
I thought jones won that, not even close. watched again before on mute and still thought Jones dominated.

Gus was barely conscious in the fifth and Jones landed the bigger strikes, a few stiff jabs and right hands were all Gus landed.

I think people have bias because they want to see Jones lose and when Gus stuffed those takedowns and landed a few shots people kinda selectively viewed that fight.

Just watch on mute and look at who landed what, jones landed hard elbows, uppercuts, knees, head kicks and lots of hard leg kicks. Gus landed lesser shots and was in a really bad state in the fourth and fifth.

Also all the haters on sherdog were “shut down” by schaub. Good for him.[/quote]

I did watch it on mute because I don’t care for goldberg or rogaine’s commentary most of the time.

I don’t see how you can say other people have selective viewing and then turn around and say jones dominated. In what reality is that a dominant performance? He got fed. I could understand if you felt he won, personally I had gustaffason at 3 rounds to Jones 2, but I could understand if someone felt jones edged a win.

But DOMINANT? That’s ridiculous. In what reality is that a dominating performance?

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Well I’m not arrogant enough to say I’m anywhere near the level of these fighters, but I’ve experienced myself how easy it is to appear dominant against opposition you have a size and reach advantage on and how much more terrifying and frustrating it is to fight guys your size or bigger.

It’s very easy to bully someone, not so easy to fight someone.

Obviously JBJ is talented but I think he’s been fed a soft food diet, Gust was the first opponent he didnt have a wealth of advantages over and he looked in dire straits.

So I do think he will have a very hard time at 265, but he might get better.[/quote]

Is the competition at 265 really as good as the comp at 205?
I say that because while he did have an advantage, is it more of an advantage then if some 205lbs’ers decided to fight at 175.