[quote]drewh wrote:
And Hardys ground game? Beating Marcus Davis in a split desision doesn’t prove good striking to me.[/quote]
What constitutes good striking to you?
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
And Hardys ground game? Beating Marcus Davis in a split desision doesn’t prove good striking to me.
What constitutes good striking to you?[/quote]
I am bias, but I like hardy’s style.
If he can keep GSP off him he can beat him, GSP has been known to be KO’d for taking fights lightly,
I would have say it appears fighters are getting bonus talks in the lockeroom, like make it go three rounds and you get more, something like that.
I don’t know but my 2 yr daughter has better striking technique from watching train then alot of the guys here, but it is hard to stay composed the way slot of people train. I was training at a school up here because it was closer, and they play patty cake, even their fight team , then they get hit in a fight and forget everything.
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
And who and how the hell did Denis Kang get a bjj black belt?
[quote]drewh wrote:
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
[/quote]
Nah…this isn’t the same Hardy that fought Gono. Fighters improve…fighters have their “off” moments and lose focus. You just referenced a good example of that.
I bet Hardy’s opponents don’t underestimate his striking like you do…and why is that?
Randy - Vera was a close fight and such fights are tough to judge. But i relly dont understand the claims that it was such a terrible desicion .
Okay, the desicion is close but i just cant see an awfull misjudgment.
On one hand Vera only threw 3 or four combinations the hole fight. He rocked randy but wasnt able to take advantage of that.
On the other hand he got completely controlled. Always pushed against the fence. Always interupted when he wanted to punch…
I mean it was close and you can say vera won. But it is not comparable to Rua - Machida.
The rest of the card was great. Bisping really impressed me. I thought he would get crushed by Denis Kang.
Hardy was good too. Mike Swick seemed to have a bad gameplan. He tried to take Hardy down and had no plan B.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
Nah…this isn’t the same Hardy that fought Gono. Fighters improve…fighters have their “off” moments and lose focus. You just referenced a good example of that.
I bet Hardy’s opponents don’t underestimate his striking like you do…and why is that? [/quote]
I’m not fighting him is why and there are plenty of fighters who would destroy Hardy standing, AJ, Kos, Alves, Daley and GSP (he will finish him on the ground though). Hardy barely outstruck Marcus Davis, this guy is ok but people like you are going to overrate him so you can rationalize this being a decent fight.
This is coming from someone who hates GSP and would love to see him get smashed. I’m just being realistic after the letdown that was Thiago Alves, the only person I can see beating GSP at WW is an even better wrestler or BJ Penn with twenty pounds of solid muscle and a solid game plan.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
Nah…this isn’t the same Hardy that fought Gono. Fighters improve…fighters have their “off” moments and lose focus. You just referenced a good example of that.
I bet Hardy’s opponents don’t underestimate his striking like you do…and why is that?
I’m not fighting him is why and there are plenty of fighters who would destroy Hardy standing, AJ, Kos, Alves, Daley and GSP (he will finish him on the ground though). Hardy barely outstruck Marcus Davis, this guy is ok but people like you are going to overrate him so you can rationalize this being a decent fight. This is coming from someone who hates GSP and would love to see him get smashed. I’m just being realistic after the letdown that was Thiago Alves, the only person I can see beating GSP at WW is an even better wrestler or BJ Penn with twenty pounds of solid muscle and a solid game plan.[/quote]
I only questioned you saying that he doesn’t even have “good” striking. Don’t know why you’re assuming I’m “rationalizing” his chances against GSP. I was talking purely about his abilities.
I think a fighter would have to be at least “good” to give Marcus Davis…AND…Mike Swick fits. That’s the only thing I’m trying to rationalize.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
Nah…this isn’t the same Hardy that fought Gono. Fighters improve…fighters have their “off” moments and lose focus. You just referenced a good example of that.
I bet Hardy’s opponents don’t underestimate his striking like you do…and why is that?
I’m not fighting him is why and there are plenty of fighters who would destroy Hardy standing, AJ, Kos, Alves, Daley and GSP (he will finish him on the ground though). Hardy barely outstruck Marcus Davis, this guy is ok but people like you are going to overrate him so you can rationalize this being a decent fight. This is coming from someone who hates GSP and would love to see him get smashed. I’m just being realistic after the letdown that was Thiago Alves, the only person I can see beating GSP at WW is an even better wrestler or BJ Penn with twenty pounds of solid muscle and a solid game plan.
I only questioned you saying that he doesn’t even have “good” striking. Don’t know why you’re assuming I’m “rationalizing” his chances against GSP. I was talking purely about his abilities.
I think a fighter would have to be at least “good” to give Marcus Davis…AND…Mike Swick fits. That’s the only thing I’m trying to rationalize.
[/quote]
i gotta agree with the Bossman here…Swick and Davis are prolly two of the most dominant strikers in the WW division (Alves, as well).
i kinda wondered if Swick is still injured, or if 170 is simply too much of a cut for him. he looks firggin skinny, and he seems to lost a lot of his power.
Could anyone provide a link to Siver’s fight, please? I really want to see that kick.
some older footage
vs Dale Hartt ufc
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Dale_Hartt_vs_Dennis_Siver_UFC_99_The_Comeback?vid=10005308&tid=100
vs Nate Mohr
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Nate_Mohr_vs_Dennis_Siver_UFC_93?vid=10002968&tid=100
nice quick KO combo vs an outclassed guy
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
You mean the lone Serra fight which was a TKO? GSP is gonna whoop that ass, remember this is the same Hardy he was outstruck by Akahiro Gono.
Nah…this isn’t the same Hardy that fought Gono. Fighters improve…fighters have their “off” moments and lose focus. You just referenced a good example of that.
I bet Hardy’s opponents don’t underestimate his striking like you do…and why is that?
I’m not fighting him is why and there are plenty of fighters who would destroy Hardy standing, AJ, Kos, Alves, Daley and GSP (he will finish him on the ground though). Hardy barely outstruck Marcus Davis, this guy is ok but people like you are going to overrate him so you can rationalize this being a decent fight. This is coming from someone who hates GSP and would love to see him get smashed. I’m just being realistic after the letdown that was Thiago Alves, the only person I can see beating GSP at WW is an even better wrestler or BJ Penn with twenty pounds of solid muscle and a solid game plan.
I only questioned you saying that he doesn’t even have “good” striking. Don’t know why you’re assuming I’m “rationalizing” his chances against GSP. I was talking purely about his abilities.
I think a fighter would have to be at least “good” to give Marcus Davis…AND…Mike Swick fits. That’s the only thing I’m trying to rationalize.
i gotta agree with the Bossman here…Swick and Davis are prolly two of the most dominant strikers in the WW division (Alves, as well).
i kinda wondered if Swick is still injured, or if 170 is simply too much of a cut for him. he looks firggin skinny, and he seems to lost a lot of his power.[/quote]
I think sometimes getting hit good once can through off your whole fight. Take you out of your comfort zone.
Alot of people like to rationalize that many of the fighters in the UFC are very good strikers and people all hit about the same, but this not true in either instance, most fighters that are decent strikers get so thrown off because fo the possiblity of getting taken down they hold back.
Also some people just really hit hard, and it can surprise you.
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.[/quote]
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.[/quote]
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? [/quote] I don’t recall that many takedown attempts in the 3rd round, but I could be wrong. As for control, again I’m going from my initial reaction since I didn’t record the fight, but I remember thinking halfway through the 3rd round that Randy won since Vera fell into his clinch against the cage and stayed there way too long. I’m not claiming Randy did ANY damage, but I didn’t see Vera do much either.
If there was ever a draw, it was this fight, but I don’t think there is a judging option for it without a point deduction (or a 10-8).
I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying. [/quote]
I couldn’t agree more. I think the “10-point must” system works well for boxing, but it’s shit for MMA, especially a 3 round fight.
Judges should have a mechanism to call a round a draw. In the Vera/Couture fight I didn’t think either deserved to win.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Picks?
Couture via GNP
Swick via KO in the first round - I think Swick has got it because he wants it more. Both guys are gonna come out trying to kill each other in the first round imo. I feel Swick is a much better fighter than Marcus Davis(even though I love the guy) and will control Hardy. Finally Hardy is a fucking tool.
Kang by KO- the dude can strike, Bisping is probably still mentally rattled abit from the Hendo beatdown, and Bisping is a fucking tool.
I don’t really care about the rest of the card. BUT ITS FREE!
Thoughts?[/quote]
hmmm looks like u were wrong on all the outcomes lol the kang/bisping fight wasnt bad at all and it was def and upset but swick/hardy and couture/vera was just guys hugging each other for 3 rounds
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? I don’t recall that many takedown attempts in the 3rd round, but I could be wrong. As for control, again I’m going from my initial reaction since I didn’t record the fight, but I remember thinking halfway through the 3rd round that Randy won since Vera fell into his clinch against the cage and stayed there way too long. I’m not claiming Randy did ANY damage, but I didn’t see Vera do much either.
If there was ever a draw, it was this fight, but I don’t think there is a judging option for it without a point deduction (or a 10-8).
I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying.
I couldn’t agree more. I think the “10-point must” system works well for boxing, but it’s shit for MMA, especially a 3 round fight.
Judges should have a mechanism to call a round a draw. In the Vera/Couture fight I didn’t think either deserved to win. [/quote]
AS far as there being a tie… it is possible in the 10-point must system for mma. You can have 10/10 rounds.
[quote]Amiright wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? I don’t recall that many takedown attempts in the 3rd round, but I could be wrong. As for control, again I’m going from my initial reaction since I didn’t record the fight, but I remember thinking halfway through the 3rd round that Randy won since Vera fell into his clinch against the cage and stayed there way too long. I’m not claiming Randy did ANY damage, but I didn’t see Vera do much either.
If there was ever a draw, it was this fight, but I don’t think there is a judging option for it without a point deduction (or a 10-8).
I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying.
I couldn’t agree more. I think the “10-point must” system works well for boxing, but it’s shit for MMA, especially a 3 round fight.
Judges should have a mechanism to call a round a draw. In the Vera/Couture fight I didn’t think either deserved to win.
AS far as there being a tie… it is possible in the 10-point must system for mma. You can have 10/10 rounds.
[/quote]
I wasn’t aware of that. In that case I think it should have went to Vera for winning 2nd round and then a 10-10 for rounds 1 & 3. Worst case a draw.
[quote]Amiright wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? I don’t recall that many takedown attempts in the 3rd round, but I could be wrong. As for control, again I’m going from my initial reaction since I didn’t record the fight, but I remember thinking halfway through the 3rd round that Randy won since Vera fell into his clinch against the cage and stayed there way too long. I’m not claiming Randy did ANY damage, but I didn’t see Vera do much either.
If there was ever a draw, it was this fight, but I don’t think there is a judging option for it without a point deduction (or a 10-8).
I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying.
I couldn’t agree more. I think the “10-point must” system works well for boxing, but it’s shit for MMA, especially a 3 round fight.
Judges should have a mechanism to call a round a draw. In the Vera/Couture fight I didn’t think either deserved to win.
AS far as there being a tie… it is possible in the 10-point must system for mma. You can have 10/10 rounds.
[/quote]
How come they always say 10 point must scoring system with the opponent scoring 9 or less?
[quote]Kalle wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I don’t know how we can say Vera wasn’t robbed in that fight, when did holding someone against the cage constitute offense? The 2nd round Randy got dropped - round Vera. Third round Vera took Randy down and mounted him - round Vera. In those two rounds Randy did absolutely nothing but basically hug Vera against the cage. If that is truly what constitutes a win, then the judging standards need to be fixed.
I was hoping Vera would get the decision, but I wasn’t surprised it went to Randy. Round 1, Vera did nothing, at all. So I figure they had to give Randy round 1 for control. Round 2 must have been the round all 3 judges gave Vera. So then it comes down to Round 3. Personally I thought the little bit Vera did should have given it to him, but Randy controlled most of the time.
So although I disagree with the discission, I put all the blame on Vera, not the judges, Vera just didn’t do enough.
I agree with Big Boss’s comment that Vera really needs to get his killer instinct back.
But what control did Randy exercise? Failed takedown attempt after failed takedown attempt? I don’t recall that many takedown attempts in the 3rd round, but I could be wrong. As for control, again I’m going from my initial reaction since I didn’t record the fight, but I remember thinking halfway through the 3rd round that Randy won since Vera fell into his clinch against the cage and stayed there way too long. I’m not claiming Randy did ANY damage, but I didn’t see Vera do much either.
If there was ever a draw, it was this fight, but I don’t think there is a judging option for it without a point deduction (or a 10-8).
I also don’t like this defeatist attitude we’ve developed with regards to judging, it is really acceptable to just say, “don’t leave it in the hands of the judges” as if the judging is so inept that we’ve accepted that fact and now blame the fighters? You can’t always finish a fight. I’ve been advocating for clearer guidelines for years and the last two UFCs have only displayed what I’ve been saying.
I couldn’t agree more. I think the “10-point must” system works well for boxing, but it’s shit for MMA, especially a 3 round fight.
Judges should have a mechanism to call a round a draw. In the Vera/Couture fight I didn’t think either deserved to win.
AS far as there being a tie… it is possible in the 10-point must system for mma. You can have 10/10 rounds.
How come they always say 10 point must scoring system with the opponent scoring 9 or less?[/quote]
But they don’t say there has to be a round winner… its just a rule that isn’t really mentioned because they practically never use it. But you can look it up, 10/10 are possible in mma.