T Nation

Typical 1st Cycle


#1

Hello fellow lifters!

After lurking this site for a few weeks, I finally feel worthy of posting. I’m 30 years old, 6ft 1, about 20% bf, and weigh 228 lbs. Ive been lifting for over a decade on and off and decided to make the leap. I want to learn as much as I can before I do my first cycle and I also want to have everything on hand before the first pin. Any help and guidance is much appreciated. Thanks for your time and the constructive criticism.

My cycle

Week 1-12: test e @250 mg every 3.5 days (500 mg total)
Week 1-5: 25 mg dbol every day
Week 1-12: HCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days
Week 1-14: Arimidx @ .25 mg every other day ( from day 2 up until PCT)

2 weeks after last pin:

PCT: Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Again, thanks you guy!


#2

Can’t comment on the rest of the stuff as I’m not an experienced AAS user, but I sure hope this is a typo and you meant 0.25 mg. Though, with your dose, I think it’d be suggested to run 0.5 mg EOD unless you’re super sensitive to the stuff. I’ll wait for someone more experienced to chime in on that though.

I would take the first dose on your first day as well (shot and d-bol intake). They’re both “wet” compounds, why let them aromatize (T->E2) for 2 days?

To illustrate, I take 0.5 mg E3.5D on TRT (150mg/wk). Because of that, I never had to PCT myself, but if I had, I’d go with the “new” method of 20mg Nolva for 4-6 weeks only without the Clomid as I see everywhere.


#3

I won’t comment on your PCT because I’m always “on”, so I don’t do it myself. However, seriously reconsider your adex dose if it wasn’t a typo. Only a couple of mg’s withing a day or so will crash your E2, and that’s not a place you want to be.
At 500mg test per week, the sweet spot for me is either 0.45mg anastrozole (arimidex) EOD, or 0.25mg ED, depending on how you want to dose it. That keeps my E2 in the 20’s.
The first 5 weeks with dbol is another story though and you will want at least .5mg adex EOD because it aromatizes heavily.


#4

Yeah, it was a typo. I just fixed it. I appreciate the feedback guys. So the general consensus is that .25 mg Arimidex is too little and to go with .5?


#5

Definitely start with 0.5mg adex EOD while you are running the dbol. A buddy of mine was running 375mg t-cyp per week and 30mg dbol ED. Using 0.25mg adex EOD, his E2 came back at 121. Way too high!!!
By the way, he had no bloating, no sensitive/itchy nipples or any other indication of high estrogen, so DON’T go by the ol’ “I’ll use it if I need it” mentality…


#6

So only run .5 mg while I’m on the dbol, Or for the entire cycle? if not, how much should i do and should i taper off? Sorry if these are neub questions but I want to do this right. Also, say i do the .5 mg how would i know if its not enough? Through the mid cycle blood work?


#7

I actually disagree with the adex suggestions here. I would start with the .25mg EOD and get bloodwork about 2 1/2 weeks in to see where E2 is at, and adjust from there. If you start to high and crash your E2, it’s going to be hard to figure out the right dose. I’d much rather start with .25, find out my E2 is getting a little high, and start using more, than go the other way around and not know if .25 is also crashing it. I do know several people who couldn’t even tolerate .25 on a similar cycle. One guy dropped to .125 and still crashed his E2. So he had to stop using adex altogether. The most important thing to determine in your first cycle is whether or not you’re an over-responder. I highly recommend the approach I’ve outlined here.


#8

I would run 0.5mg until 2 or 3 days after dropping the dbol, then start 0.25mg for the remainder of the cycle.
To know whether it’s sufficient or not, the only way would be to test about 3 weeks in, but that’s assuming you reached peak with the t-enth. I think you’re actually looking at 4 or 5 weeks at least before you reach peak levels, so it is sort of a moot point. Everything is too dynamic at that point gain any reliable data from a test.
0.5mg EOD should keep your E2 from getting too far out of range and mitigate any effects, especially since it’s only a few weeks you’ll be on the dbol.
Personally, I would test 10 - 14 days after dropping your adex dosage. The dbol will be mostly gone if not completely, and the t-enth will be stable. That should give you a good number for your E2. Also try to be sure not to test on a day you inject or take the adex. Mid-ways between both is optimum.


#9

I agree with what you are saying, to a point. But because the t-enth level is still climbing, I don’t think any reliable data will be attained from a test at 2 weeks. It is all very dynamic.
However, you are exactly right about the possibility of being an over-responder. We are all different, and if you don’t have prior tests to reference, then it is very hard to gauge how you will respond without trying it for yourself.
Assuming he is not an over-responder though, and knowing how much dbol aromatizes, I still don’t think 0.5mg EOD is enough to even keep him in the 20’s, much less crash him.
flipcollar may have much more experience than I do though, so it is up to the OP to choose a route for himself based on his response history unless ksman or other guru chimes in.

Bull


#10

T level is still rising at that point, but aromatization rate would not be substantially higher later in the cycle. I just think that’s late enough to get a good enough baseline. The dbol would already be in full effect. If E2 was extremely high at that point, you would know to adjust early. But yea, I mean he could wait til 4ish weeks and be fine too.

Gotta remember also that sourcing of Adex is relevant to all of this. I don’t know your source, and I don’t know his. Plenty of underdosed Adex out there. And conversely, you can actually find overdosed Adex as well.

I just think that a number like, say, 80 E2 is easier to work with than 0.


#11

I cannot dispute the claims about aromatization rate as I did not know this myself. Otherwise, I totally agree. I have a prescription for adex, but hate spending $32 at the compounding pharmacy for what amounts to about $2 worth. So I take my chances with the UGL’s and try to stick with the same one so if it is over or under, hopefully it remains somewhat consistent.
I wouldn’t want to be at 80, but I promise I would rather be there than 0!!! Below 5 or 6 and my will to live peters out, libido is non-existent, and the old stick won’t even get hard enough to thumb in. A terrible place to be for sure.


#12

Man, I appreciate you guys chiming in. Like I said, I want to do this right and have everything on hand and know what I’m doing.

So do you guys think I should start with .5 mg and get blood work done at 5 weeks?