T Nation

Type 2 Diabetes and Low T


#1

Everyone wonders what came first,the chicken or the egg? That was the discussion I had with my doctor. I have insulin resistance which was discovered in about 2009. Since then I've had problems with weight fluctuation, I'd drop down to 260 only to come back to my fat ass self at 300. All the symptoms were there, tired, loss of sex drive, no motivation to get in the gym.

I thought it was just life taking over. The constant daily routines between work and family. Three weeks ago my new medical kicked in and my doctor scheduled blood work, I requested that my test be checked. Low and behold my levels were at 128. A1c levels also not so good, but I also explained that I haven't had medical coverage or medication since July for my type 2 diabetes. Anyway, doc said that low t is caused from diabetes however I argued that diabetes can be caused from low t.

At first she argued but after a thought out discussion she agreed to treat from both ends of the spectrum. Only problem is she prescribed me testim. I know there's a bunch of threads on here about trt and the use of gels and injections. But I'm curious if anyone has my similar situation. Type 2 and low t. If so has trt helped with the blood sugar? Have u noticed a1c levels dropping? I know people will ask about training history and all, so a brief background.

I'm 34. I trained heavily until I was about 24. At my best I was 265 and about 12% body fat. Very strong. I had a long layoff from training. I have been hitting weights hard for about 8 months now. Getting my diet cleaned up has been a task. But its a constant evolving process. I've been eating lean meats. Eggs. Yams. Protein supps.


#2

You may want to avoid protein supplements as they will increase insulin demand. What was your a1c at? Were you on metformin and then stopped for financial reasons?


#3

I had no metformin due to lapse is coverage from July this year. My medical kicked in November 1. Backbone metformin and newly prescribed victoza. Victoza helps with insulin sensitivity and weight loss. I know it has possible sides. I’m well aware of them. A1c at 8.5


#4

I stopped taking metformin in July due to loads of medical insurance. This month I was prescribed metformin and victoza. As well as testim.


#5

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:
You may want to avoid protein supplements as they will increase insulin demand. What was your a1c at? Were you on metformin and then stopped for financial reasons?[/quote]

Man that’s good to know. Would that in turn increase your glucose level on a fasting blood test?

Last round of bloods my glucose came back at 103. Doc ordered a hemoglobin A1c and said that I was fine since the average showed 5.4 (<5.7).

I didn’t even consider that the protein powder could be part of the problem.


#6

Actually the whey protein seems to improve blood glucose levels. It promotes insulin secretion and lowers blood glucose in TTDM. So maybe continue with the whey and have a conversation with your Dr. Meanwhile I’m going to look into this.


#7

With test injections possible in the near future, I’m trying to dial in my eating so I can maximize the effects of steroids. Let me be more clear. Again any input is greatly appreciated. I take one shake per day. ( gold standard) . if I need a snack I’ll eat chicken or turkey( Kirkland lunch meats) I consume whole wheat breads. Brown rice. Whole wheat pastas. Ground turkey. Nuts. Etc. My supps are limited to just that. A supplement. I usually have it first thing in the morning. Some days I forget.
My original question was if anyone has noticed a decrease is a1c alongside testosterone treatment. Specifically the testim gel? Or better blood sugar levels over time.


#8

Guys, I’m sorry for the type errors. I hate auto correct!
Also taking daily vitamins with bcaa. A popular brand ( not sure if I can say it tho)


#9

Whey protein does evoke a robust insulin response (probably due to its high leucine levels). However, I am not aware of any evidence of whey protein causing BS levels to rise significantly. And while it would seem reasonable to presume that the elevated insulin levels provoked by whey protein could contribute to the insulin resistance that is the hallmark of DM2, rat-model data indicate the opposite is true. That is, a high whey-protein diet is associated with REDUCED insulin resistance:

Further, data suggest this effect might be a function of the leucine component:

Finally, there are data indicating these positive effects of whey protein occur in humans as well:


#10

I’ve read similar data. I’m not one to be hard headed and argue. I like to hear everyone out! Thanks guys. Keep it coming.


#11

[quote]tugboat510 wrote:

My original question was if anyone has noticed a decrease is a1c alongside testosterone treatment. Specifically the testim gel? Or better blood sugar levels over time. [/quote]

There are data indicating TRT in hypogonadal males will improve their metabolic profiles:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803801#vp_1

(Google ‘Medscape Testosterone Benefits Hypogonadal Men With Type 2 Diabetes’ if the link fails to work)

That said, TRT is not a magic bullet–it will not cure DM2. Further, there is no evidence I am aware of to indicate that hypogonadism is a significant cause (in and of itself) of DM2.

If anything, in the majority of cases, the original arrow of causality likely points from obesity toward both DM2 and hypogonadism, not the other way around. Once an obese individual develops hypogonadism, their low T levels will in turn exacerbate their obesity, and probably increase the likelihood they will develop DM2.


#12

Well that statement was coming from my GP. the whole reason why I’m opting for the TRT is to help with the drive to get better. Trust me, I have spent countless hours reading and researching. I know where I went wrong. Now I’m trying to fix it.

As far as a magic bullet, I know it doesn’t substitute for hard work on my end. Just looking for any hard evidence to back my thoughts. That way I can go in to the doc loaded with information that makes sense.


#13

[quote]tugboat510 wrote:

As far as a magic bullet, I know it doesn’t substitute for hard work on my end. [/quote]

Glad to hear you say this. I don’t contribute often on this subforum, but peruse it frequently. The number of posters who believe TRT will provide a quick and easy fix to all their physical and emotional issues is both surprising and disheartening.


#14

Eat right, exercise often and have sex more. Now that’s the magic bullet! Does wonders for emotional and physical issues!


#15

There is a lot more to your health than T and insulin sensitivity.

At your age, your low T is a symptom, not a cause. Don’t simply do TRT and mask the symptoms without proper diagnostics.

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • thyroid basics
    – do you use iodized salt?
    – do you feel cold easily?

If thyroid function is poor, body temps will be low and your metabolic rate declines and you get fat and/or cannot loose fat.

Any sign of gyno?

Post all of your lab data with ranges. You need CBC, lipids, thyroid, AM cortisol, hematocrit, PSA, CRP or [referred] homocysteine

TT
FT
E2
HTC [may be part of CBC]
prolactin

  • if elevated, get MRI to see is there is a prolactin secreting adinoma
    LH/FSH - should have been done before any form of TRT, otherwise doc is incompetent
    TSH
    fT3, fT4
    CBC + lipids
    AM cortisol
    Body [oral] temperatures when you first wake up
    Body [oral] temperatures in mid-afternoon
    blood pressure

Your TRT needs to manage T levels and E2/estradiol. TRT will make your testes smaller. hCG can preserve your testes and when the testes are in good shape, hCG can restore T levels, not often not sufficiently. Your pre TRT LH/FSH levels would be very instrumental. If LH/FSH were mid range or higher, your low T indicates primary hypogonadism and hCG would then not lead to useful T levels.

Are you needing to preserve your fertility?

Have you had your testes examined?


#16

CBC
Wbc 5.7
Rbc 6.45
Hemoglobin 17.6
Hematocrit 52.9
MCV 82fl
MCH 27.3pg
Mchc 33.3g/DL
Rdw13.7%
Platelets 209
Nuetrophils 62%
Lymphs33%
Monocytes 3%
Eos1%
Basos1%


#17

I’ll post more. In a bit. Thanks guys sorry for the delay


#18

LH 5.2 range 1.7-8.6
FSH 4.8 range 1.5-12.4

t4 5.0 range is 4.5-12.0


#19

TSH should be near 1.0
T3, T4, fT3, ft4 should be near mid range. Your T4=5.0 should be near 8.25
FT4 and FT3 are not the best labs, you should be looking a free levels fT3, fT4

Time for body temps and iodine info.


#20

So what does it mean doc? Am I gonna fall over dead?