Two Ex-GTMO Inmates Appear in AQ Vid

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Is it suprising that some people who have been kept in inhuman conditions and treated as terrorists for a number of years have left Gto with a bit of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the USof A?

The reason they are in Gitmo is because that had a bit of a chip on their shoulder to begin with. A rather large chip.

Not all of them, and that is where the problem lies. I don’t see any of them leaving and saying, you know what, “I have a new found respect for the USA and their ideals.”

But those decisions have already been taken. Glad I am not the one that has to untangle it.

Not all of them, huh? Sooooooooooo you’re world travels have taken you to the southern coast of the Isle of Coooba? You do get around, Cock.[/quote]

No but I have been within swimming distance :wink:

Actually there were a number of brits locked up in Guantanamo and I have read the accounts of how some of them ended up there and how they were treated. Even the US government has admitted that fact that totally innocent people have been locked up.

22

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Is it suprising that some people who have been kept in inhuman conditions and treated as terrorists for a number of years have left Gto with a bit of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the USof A?

The reason they are in Gitmo is because that had a bit of a chip on their shoulder to begin with. A rather large chip.

Not all of them, and that is where the problem lies. I don’t see any of them leaving and saying, you know what, “I have a new found respect for the USA and their ideals.”

But those decisions have already been taken. Glad I am not the one that has to untangle it.

Not all of them, huh? Sooooooooooo you’re world travels have taken you to the southern coast of the Isle of Coooba? You do get around, Cock.

No but I have been within swimming distance :wink:

Actually there were a number of brits locked up in Guantanamo and I have read the accounts of how some of them ended up there and how they were treated. Even the US government has admitted that fact that totally innocent people have been locked up.

[/quote]

So tell us Cockney how did those Brits wind up in Guantanamo? Were they on a Church of England retreat to the Lake district when the Yanks showed up out of nowhere and grabbed them? Or were they perhaps on some other type of C of E activity? Are these Brits are C of E members or do they belong to some other denomination? inquiring minds want to know.

24

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Is it suprising that some people who have been kept in inhuman conditions and treated as terrorists for a number of years have left Gto with a bit of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the USof A?

The reason they are in Gitmo is because that had a bit of a chip on their shoulder to begin with. A rather large chip.

Not all of them, and that is where the problem lies. I don’t see any of them leaving and saying, you know what, “I have a new found respect for the USA and their ideals.”

But those decisions have already been taken. Glad I am not the one that has to untangle it.

Not all of them, huh? Sooooooooooo you’re world travels have taken you to the southern coast of the Isle of Coooba? You do get around, Cock.

No but I have been within swimming distance :wink:

Actually there were a number of brits locked up in Guantanamo and I have read the accounts of how some of them ended up there and how they were treated. Even the US government has admitted that fact that totally innocent people have been locked up.

So tell us Cockney how did those Brits wind up in Guantanamo? Were they on a Church of England retreat to the Lake district when the Yanks showed up out of nowhere and grabbed them? Or were they perhaps on some other type of C of E activity? Are these Brits are C of E members or do they belong to some other denomination? inquiring minds want to know.[/quote]

C of E singles retreat, no doubt.

25

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Is it suprising that some people who have been kept in inhuman conditions and treated as terrorists for a number of years have left Gto with a bit of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the USof A?

The reason they are in Gitmo is because that had a bit of a chip on their shoulder to begin with. A rather large chip.

Not all of them, and that is where the problem lies. I don’t see any of them leaving and saying, you know what, “I have a new found respect for the USA and their ideals.”

But those decisions have already been taken. Glad I am not the one that has to untangle it.

Not all of them, huh? Sooooooooooo you’re world travels have taken you to the southern coast of the Isle of Coooba? You do get around, Cock.

No but I have been within swimming distance :wink:

Actually there were a number of brits locked up in Guantanamo and I have read the accounts of how some of them ended up there and how they were treated. Even the US government has admitted that fact that totally innocent people have been locked up.

So tell us Cockney how did those Brits wind up in Guantanamo? Were they on a Church of England retreat to the Lake district when the Yanks showed up out of nowhere and grabbed them? Or were they perhaps on some other type of C of E activity? Are these Brits are C of E members or do they belong to some other denomination? inquiring minds want to know.[/quote]

Ah of course, they were Muslim so by definition they were evil and guilty. Which is why the US government released them without charge and appologised.

Interestingly of the guys that I read about, some of them took the attitude that it was just shit luck, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and possibly stupid for being there, some of them had had their faith in Islam shaken and others had become more devout.

26

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

So tell us Cockney how did those Brits wind up in Guantanamo? Were they on a Church of England retreat to the Lake district when the Yanks showed up out of nowhere and grabbed them? Or were they perhaps on some other type of C of E activity? Are these Brits are C of E members or do they belong to some other denomination? inquiring minds want to know.

Ah of course, they were Muslim so by definition they were evil and guilty. Which is why the US government released them without charge and appologised.

Interestingly of the guys that I read about, some of them took the attitude that it was just shit luck, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and possibly stupid for being there, some of them had had their faith in Islam shaken and others had become more devout.[/quote]

So they weren’t just random people. It sounds like some of them were reasonable enough to realize that if they hadn’t been where they were the likelihood of a mistake such as the one that befell them would have been greatly reduced.

I watched a documentary video about a group of British Muslims that happened to, it sounds like the same group. Mistaken identity is one of the uglier aspects of a dirty war like an insurgency where you aren’t facing a uniformed enemy.

As much as I would like for there to be better screening so mistakes don’t get made or they quickly get resolved and I do think they could do better. There are limits, so I am willing to give the government some benefit of the doubt.

27

Since their doctrine clearly teaches to engage in warfare against the kuffar, we shouldn’t necessarily think better of these “British citizens” who were evidently captured in some theater of jihad. It’s not like we were grabbing them in Britain and shipping them off to GTMO. They were nabbed in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or Pakistan, perhaps. What gave them the urge to visit these garden spots? If they had good reason, why were they standing in close enough proximity to mujahideen to be mistaken for mujahideen?

28

BTW, CB, what do you actually know of what Islam teaches regarding jihad against infidels? Right now you’re just confirming the words of CAIR director Nihad Awad (he was speaking of Americans, but the British will do fine for this example):

[quote]
“Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”[/quote]

Yep. That’s about right.

29

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Since their doctrine clearly teaches to engage in warfare against the kuffar, we shouldn’t necessarily think better of these “British citizens” who were evidently captured in some theater of jihad. It’s not like we were grabbing them in Britain and shipping them off to GTMO. They were nabbed in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or Pakistan, perhaps. What gave them the urge to visit these garden spots? If they had good reason, why were they standing in close enough proximity to mujahideen to be mistaken for mujahideen?

[/quote]

I think what he is referring to is the Tipton Three. They made a movie about them. The Road to Guantanamo. Here is part one of fourteen.

30

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

So tell us Cockney how did those Brits wind up in Guantanamo? Were they on a Church of England retreat to the Lake district when the Yanks showed up out of nowhere and grabbed them? Or were they perhaps on some other type of C of E activity? Are these Brits are C of E members or do they belong to some other denomination? inquiring minds want to know.

Ah of course, they were Muslim so by definition they were evil and guilty. Which is why the US government released them without charge and appologised.

Interestingly of the guys that I read about, some of them took the attitude that it was just shit luck, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and possibly stupid for being there, some of them had had their faith in Islam shaken and others had become more devout.

So they weren’t just random people. It sounds like some of them were reasonable enough to realize that if they hadn’t been where they were the likelihood of a mistake such as the one that befell them would have been greatly reduced.

I watched a documentary video about a group of British Muslims that happened to, it sounds like the same group. Mistaken identity is one of the uglier aspects of a dirty war like an insurgency where you aren’t facing a uniformed enemy.

As much as I would like for there to be better screening so mistakes don’t get made or they quickly get resolved and I do think they could do better. There are limits, so I am willing to give the government some benefit of the doubt.

[/quote]

I totally agree, desperate times call for desperate measures and all that.

The problem that I see is that a fair chunk of the US population thinks that everyone in Guantanamo must be guilty because they were in Guantanamo (no smoke without fire kind of attitude.)

As has been mentioned by several other people on this and other threads, collecting evidence from a warzone in such a way that it would stand up in a court of law is virtually impossible so now there is the problem of what do you do? Do you have an armistace where you just let everyone go? Do you keep everyone locked up so as not to release guilty people along with the innocent?

I have no answer to these questions.

31

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
BTW, CB, what do you actually know of what Islam teaches regarding jihad against infidels? Right now you’re just confirming the words of CAIR director Nihad Awad (he was speaking of Americans, but the British will do fine for this example):

“Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”

Yep. That’s about right. [/quote]

Very few religious texts that I have read from any religion are totally free from inflamatory demands that the followers of the religion go out and destroy the followers of other religions.

The Bible has plenty of hideous hateful passages.

Personally I go along with Dawkins and Hitchins that the world would be a better place if everyone grew out of religion.

I take it from your rhetoric that your solution to the problems in the middle east would be to kill all muslims.

32

[quote]Sifu wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Since their doctrine clearly teaches to engage in warfare against the kuffar, we shouldn’t necessarily think better of these “British citizens” who were evidently captured in some theater of jihad. It’s not like we were grabbing them in Britain and shipping them off to GTMO. They were nabbed in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or Pakistan, perhaps. What gave them the urge to visit these garden spots? If they had good reason, why were they standing in close enough proximity to mujahideen to be mistaken for mujahideen?

I think what he is referring to is the Tipton Three. They made a movie about them. The Road to Guantanamo. Here is part one of fourteen.

That is one of the groups of people yes. Seems to me like the reason that they ended up in Guantanamo was that they were pretty stupid and naive. If we locked everyone up for that then the streets would be pretty empty!

33

Apparently, they are releasing people. Including jihadists.

34

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
BTW, CB, what do you actually know of what Islam teaches regarding jihad against infidels? Right now you’re just confirming the words of CAIR director Nihad Awad (he was speaking of Americans, but the British will do fine for this example):

“Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”

Yep. That’s about right.

Very few religious texts that I have read from any religion are totally free from inflamatory demands that the followers of the religion go out and destroy the followers of other religions.

The Bible has plenty of hideous hateful passages.

[/quote]

Let’s discuss them. Put up or shut up.

35

Prisons are fall of innocent people. Just ask the inmates.

36

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
BTW, CB, what do you actually know of what Islam teaches regarding jihad against infidels? Right now you’re just confirming the words of CAIR director Nihad Awad (he was speaking of Americans, but the British will do fine for this example):

“Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”

Yep. That’s about right.

Very few religious texts that I have read from any religion are totally free from inflamatory demands that the followers of the religion go out and destroy the followers of other religions.

The Bible has plenty of hideous hateful passages.

Let’s discuss them. Put up or shut up. [/quote]

You might try starting by reading up on the US bible wars in the second half of the 19th century. Groups of protestants rioting and burning down Catholic Churches and Catholic homes because Catholic children had been excused from reading protestant bible readings in public schools.

Baring in mind that Yaweh was origionally the war god of a pollytheistic religion it is no suprise that there are lots of references to violence in the bible. Lets start with Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, then we can move onto the slaughter of all of the Egyptian children at the passover, the israelites wiping out the followers of King Sihon of Heshbon and the followers of King Og of Bashan, in the new testament, Jesus approves of torture in the parable of the king forgiving his servants debt.

The whole religion is based on the tenet that if you do not believe you will be condemmed to eternal torture and hellfire. Christianity is a religion of exclusion, cannibalism, hatred and violence. Just because people today choose to just believe the love and forgiveness parts doesn’t wipe the other parts out of the good book.

37

We’re trying to talk about various passages that justify that sort of thing, not what they did themselves.

Proof?

There are. What is at issue is what is prescribed vs. what is described.

You’re referring to this:

Can you point out to me where this advocates violence towards one another? It seems to be advocating the exact opposite, actually: forgiveness. What about all the passages where Jesus talks about turning the other cheek and loving your neighbor? Are those thrown out of your understanding of the NT?

40

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
BTW, CB, what do you actually know of what Islam teaches regarding jihad against infidels? Right now you’re just confirming the words of CAIR director Nihad Awad (he was speaking of Americans, but the British will do fine for this example):

“Address people according to their minds. When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything.”

Yep. That’s about right.

Very few religious texts that I have read from any religion are totally free from inflamatory demands that the followers of the religion go out and destroy the followers of other religions.

The Bible has plenty of hideous hateful passages.

Let’s discuss them. Put up or shut up.

You might try starting by reading up on the US bible wars in the second half of the 19th century. Groups of protestants rioting and burning down Catholic Churches and Catholic homes because Catholic children had been excused from reading protestant bible readings in public schools.

Baring in mind that Yaweh was origionally the war god of a pollytheistic religion it is no suprise that there are lots of references to violence in the bible. Lets start with Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, then we can move onto the slaughter of all of the Egyptian children at the passover, the israelites wiping out the followers of King Sihon of Heshbon and the followers of King Og of Bashan, in the new testament, Jesus approves of torture in the parable of the king forgiving his servants debt.

The whole religion is based on the tenet that if you do not believe you will be condemmed to eternal torture and hellfire. Christianity is a religion of exclusion, cannibalism, hatred and violence. Just because people today choose to just believe the love and forgiveness parts doesn’t wipe the other parts out of the good book.[/quote]

Really? Perhaps you should show us the relevant passages from the New Testament that support this theory of yours.