T Nation

Two Different Cycle Options, Discuss


#1

Hi!

Im 24 years old, been training for 3 years now. And im beginning to consider applying steroids to bump up my progress.

What im looking for is a safe as possible way of running steroids. Meaning ill have to run em in a way that wont make my reseptors lazy(sorry lack of a better word).

Some of this ive allready discussed a bit on pms with guys here on the forum. But id like some more opinions about it.

Suggestion 1.
2weeks on/off with 20mg OT ed. Repeat

Thought behind this is that my reseptors wont get stressed out, and that ill get steady gains over a long period of time with minimal side effects. Pct shouldnt be necessary for this, but could have some nolva just incase i get paranoid. And some nolva/hcg i can use when i eventually get off. Eventhou i think it shouldent be necessary, because my own test production shouldnt drop below 70% on this. I see people in here are running 2weeks on/off with dbol, but that will make your own test production drop below 30% which means youll probably need a pct and a longer break.

Suggestion 2.
200-250mg test for 8 weeks with 4 weeks of 20mg ed anavar bridge. Repeat.

Same here, only cycling one drug at the time and bridging with anavar because it uses another reseptor.

So, i think this information will give you guys an idea of what i want to do. Id like some comments, some critics and alternative ways. As you can see, im not after the quick fix. But none the less id like the extra edge steroids can give me.

Let the flaming begin! :smiley:


#2

You are WAY too worried about your precious reseptors (sic).

Both options suck. The second one sucks less than the first, but still isn't worth a damn.

Alternative: Run one of the lovely pre-packaged newb cycles outlined in our stickies which are conveniently located above.


#3

well, maybe i am :smiley:

But i dont wanna be forced to constantly bump up the dosages and mix countless drugs to continue to get results in the future.

Cortes, please tell my why you think my two cycle options sucks. I realize you probably have better things to do than answer my stupid questions.. But hey, if my two suggestions really suck that bad i really need some help realizing it obviously :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

How often do you think you have to increase dosages? How often do you think you need to add more/different drugs to the stack to see results? Legit questions just to see what your line of thinking on this matter is.


#5

I am no veteran and probably shouldnt be giving any advice, but if you read the sticky by furious george on newbie cycle planning, then you will see IMO one of the better choices for a first cycle. You want to see how your own body reacts to test. Everyone is different!


#6

Dosages too low, length on too short (especially at said dosages), "cycling" ideas all screwed up.

If you are going to use exogenous hormones, do it right, do it at a sufficient dosage to justify your using them in the first place, and then come off the right way and stay off long enough so that receptor issues are, um, a non-issue.

If you just want "an edge," then I'll just bet that if you honestly posted your diet and training regime along with your current stats, that a few of us could offer you that "edge" and it would require absolutely no exogenous hormones whatsoever. Just a guess.


#7

Honestly, i dont know.
But one of the cycles i keep getting adviced to do is
1-4 dbol 30mg
1-12 test 500mg
1-11 deca 300mg

Which to me, seems like a boatload of trouble. Meaning, long recovery period. And most logs i read, people lose alot of their gains after a cycle like that. Water or not. but hey..

And correct me if im wrong, say you do a cycle like that. Wait, 2-3months and do it again. And so on. The results will diminsh? Am i right?


#8

As far as i know, with the 2week on/off cycle. The reseptor issue wont be a problem, if your going to believe the studies that they did in east germany on 10 000 athletes in the 1970ies.
But hey.. their probably wrong? :slight_smile:

As far as lenght On, the gains will be coming in week 2 and 3, if im right. And its something that will be done all year around. So the gains will come, just in a matter of time.. In theory.

Im my workout is a basic westside barbell template.

This is my diet:

On workout days:
m1:
80gram oatmeal with milk.
50gram whey protein
multivitamins

m2:
50gram spaghetti
400gram meat grinded(80gram protein)

m3: pre workout/workout
proteinshake with fast acting carbs.

m4: Post workout
50gram proteinshake with carbs
or
50gram proteinshake with a banana

m5:
Omelett 6eggs with bacon
or
400gram meat with broccoli /n stuff.

m6:
Omelett 6 eggs with bacon
or
proteinshake
peaneut butter

Basically something like that. On days that i dont workout i only eat carbs at breakfast, if i eat any at all.

Ive found that my body is much more happy on low carb than high carb.


#9

That test/deca/dbol cycle is something I would recommend for a 3rd 4th or even 5th cycle to be honest. It is certainly not necessary for a first time user with 3 years lifting experience.

A typical plan of action (IMO) for a recreational user would be
1st 500mg T frontloaded + AI for 8 weeks
2nd 500mg T frontloaded 8 weeks + 4weeks of 30mg dbol mid cycle + AI
3rd 750mg T frontloaded 8 weeks + 4weeks of 30mg dbol + AI

From there you can use an amount of T you are comfortable with plus a secondary injectable.
Then same as above with a different oral.
Then you can start using higher doses of the 'secondary' injectable that you like with lower doses of T

So depending on how often a person does a cycle it is certainly possible that one can use moderate doses of 2-3 anabolics for 3 years or maybe more.

My preference is to use as low of a dose as possible and I feel that it has worked out well for me so far. I have a few cycles under my belt and have yet to go over 1.1g per week total.


#10

What are you trying to say when you write "receptors getting stressed out"? AR's aren't downregulated on cycle, so what is this stress that you're speaking of? Are you referring to ease of HPTA recovery? Surely not myostatin inhibition...

Anyway, the guys are giving you good advice on cycle planning, but I really think that you'd benefit by doing a little more general research before you start taking hormones.


#11

im talking about desensitiving of reseptors. The main reason why people need to constantly up their dosages, the way i see it.. But as far as i can see, peeps in here have another opinion :slight_smile:


#12

Dosent Bill Roberts have similiar ideas regarding 2weeks on/off?


#13

Why are you under the impression that androgen receptors become desensitized when AAS are cycled appropriately?

A reason why men increase dosages is because they tend to gain mass with each cycle. A 150lb man will need less AAS to gain 10lbs of muscle than a 250lb man would (they are the same height and have indentical genetics in this case).


#14

Receptor.

It's 'Receptor.'

Gee fucking wizz.


#15

Hmm.. so - wait, what?

I assume we are talking about the AR? With Var being an AAS that binds strongly to the AR i would assume so.

The thing is Testosterone has both activity at the AR and 'other'.

This would be a reason for stacking drugs, so as to cover all bases so to speak.. as for receptor sensitivity.. you may have a point. I only say that as this is something i think about as someone who has used a fair amount of AAS. However this is covered enough by me having 2 weeks of every 6, at a very low dose.

Someone who cycles needn't worry about this really, as you are not 'on' all the time.

As for increasing doses - this is IMO waaay blown out of proportion, as i happen to know i can still grow on 1g of AAS a week.. yet according to the receptor theory i shouldn't!
Not only that but as with many things - it isn't likely JUST bodyweight, or JUST receptor sensitivity, but likely both of these and some other factors too.
You must realise that there are many aspects of pharmacology that we do not understand - yes, AAS included.

JMO


#16

Hello :slight_smile:

Nice, good plan.

Hmmph.. well then, i guess something like Bill RFoberts '2 On 4 Off' may be ideal.

OT is quite mild.. for this protocol to be effective you really need more effective drugs in CONSIDERABLY higher dosages.

You are mistaken. The protocol isn't to AVOID suppression of any kind - there is not an effective way to use AAS while simultaneously avoiding suppression.

Next - normally i would say that if you wanted to run no PCT with the 2/2 protoicol, then you may get away with that for 1-2 runs of it but more than 3 'repeats' will require some form of PCT. Your plan is different in that the dose of AAS used is so insignificant - there would be barely any suppression if you used it for 6 fucking weeks!

I do not intend to look into this to the point of being able to quote percentages of suppression (i doubt you have either, cite references will ya?) but you will be in the ball park suggesting that 2 weeks of 20mg/day Tbol to be minimally suppressive - it also will do jack.

Totally different to the first plan. suppressive but also fucking useless. i am not gonna continue - bye.


#17

Lol! Thanks DOH. Guess my little attempt earlier was a little too, um, subtle :wink:


#18

I'm not the most knowledgeable guy around here as far as AAS use goes, but I still try to present myself in the best manner possible over the internet.

I don't understand how someone who can't even use a keyboard and/or Google spell check correctly thinks they are ready to use AAS.

Furthermore, I don't understand why anyone here who chooses to help them thinks the OP is ready either.

/rant


#19

GDR athletes didn't take OT 2on-2off, they took it for 2-3month straight leading up to a competition. 20mg is for girls. You would need a lot more than that, and with 2on-2off, I would suggest something a bit stronger tha OT.

If you are just looking for an edge in the gym, don't fuck around with 20mg of tbol, it's not worth it. Try ATP injections pre-training, seriously.


#20

Thanks for all your replies!

Someone have been helpfull, someone have not!

And for those who are critizing my grammar thats ok, im not from the US or any other english speaking country.

The theories ive posted aint mine, but i admit that i think they sounded pretty good at first. If i stood by them 100% i wouldnt have posted this in here just to be called stupid and such, i would have just run the cycles and seen what happened.