Two Cycle Ideas to Get Me to 405 Bench

I’m 38, 210lbs, about 18% BF.

Been working out for years and years, and right now my bench is maxed out at 365, and it’s a grinder. Out of 3 attempts I only got it once in the last year, so its my absolute max. Hasn’t moved in a long time. My goal isn’t to have 10% BF, it’s to hit this damn bench goal and not get fat. I’ve hit my squat and dead goals, this one is pissing me off.

With the assumption my diet/sleep/training is on point, what do you guys think is the best way to get a bit more juice. I want to do the least to get the most.

I’ve been on TRT for 3 years, right now i’m doing 200mg, injected every mon&thurs. I do not take an AI, although I just got my bloods back and I am at the top of the range.

I have two ideas,

Increase 1:
300mg Test E - Mon&Thurs(have exemestane on hand just in case, might start with 6mg on injection days)

Increase 2:
200mg Test E - Mon&Thurs (have exemestane on hand in case the anavar pushes so much test out of my SHBG that I have estrogen sides)
10mg Anavar per day

Increase 3:
300mg Test E - Mon&Thurs
100mg Masteron E Mon&Thurs (this will give me a small strength gain as well as control estrogen levels at such low test doses)

I’d run them all for 20 weeks including the anavar. At only 10mg it will put a load on my liver but nothing that cannot be handled through the right care. If it was 30 or 40 or 50 i’d only do it for 8 weeks.

Anyone else have any ideas for a small boost to get my goal?

Anadrol. 50mg for four weeks. If that doesn’t do it nothing will.

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Yea but are acquired strength gains from these orals permenant? Say he reaches 405 on the bench, comes off… will he stay at 405 or drop to say 380?

A lift like the bench is largely dependent on weight and leverages. With all the extra weight on an sdrol barring other mechanisms his strength will be through the roof… but i don’t think it’s maintainable… if he managed to get to say 425, perhaps he can maintain 405

Oh he won’t stay at 405. No way. But he’ll get there, which was the goal.


I heard Trenbologna Sandwiches do the trick.

Friend of mine did test, Tren & winny cycle his bench went from 225 to 325 in a month

Adrol is another strong compound as mentioned

Tren and winny is a dangerous combo, I’ve posted a video about it (from the anabolic doc) “unprecedented rates of cardiovascular disease developing” with that specific combo… There’s more to AAS then just gains

Winny would predispose him to injury, as would having you’re bench go from 225 to 315 in a month or two

I never said it was healthy. Steroids aren’t healthy end of discussion unless you’re a middle aged man and use TRT to bring yourself back into normal ranges that’s when it’s highly beneficial or you’ve got AIDS. TRT doses are likely to throw off your lipid panel alone.

I’m not suggesting he take this combo I’m just stating that was a friends experience strength went through the roof. Besides I highly doubt an 8 week cycle of that would cause him to drop dead but yet again I’m not a doctor.

There are piles of Body Builders out there that have been down the dark hole of all the drug combinations out there and are absolutely fine.

Obviously those who just plain abuse the stuff & use unreasonable dosages for long periods are at a higher risk than someone that was using smaller reasonable dosages for shorter periods

After he cycles off his health would probably return to baseline

On cycle my blood pressure was 180/80

Just checked today by a doctor BP 127/72 almost 6 weeks since my last pin and that was a taper. Doc said that’s a healthy level.

I’d say the most unhealthy thing I can see from a bodybuilding prospective is the contest preparation. It’s an accumulation of things like dehydration, massive caloric deficit, training, all the drugs like cutters, all the gear, there’s so much more contest prep substances to list but you get the point shit is very hard on you. Bulking isn’t probably ideally healthy for you either I imagine lol but whatever it’s probably healthier than contest prep

You vastly underestimate the amount of harm these drugs can induce… but I’m not arguing with you

Not all AAS are created equal.
A tren/winny combo induced far more detriment to health compared to say… test/primo

Plenty of bodybuilders are fine, plenty have died. The ones that drop tend to be the newer “yolo, I’ll take whatever I want” type. Fool yourself into thinking you’ll be fine taking 2 grams weekly on and off. I can link numerous mechanisms by which AAS induce negative health outcomes

Genetics play a large role, the bodybuilders that you hear of coming out fine, many have had open heart surgery in their 40s 50s etc, many have had organ transplantations, and the ones without any ailments… genetic anomalies. The ones that drop are the ones we don’t hear much about, but I can link many case reports regarding guys who have had seriously negative outcomes, death etc

There’s use and responsible use, and a recreational gym bro has no need to touch a tren/winny combo… not to mention winstrol is a terrible idea if you’re training solely for max strength gains (predisposes one to injury)

An 8 wk cycle won’t cause someone absent of genetic predisposition and/or undiagnosed cardiac defect etc to drop dead… however it can very well take a year or two off you’re life… or longer… who knows (genetics/lifestyle choices)… repeat cycling, getting BP up to 180/80 etc you’re looking for trouble 20 years down the line… and it irritates me how people (adults included) fail to gauge long term risk adequately

Edit: wait, I misinterpreted you’re post

This is correct

There’s no doubt a test/primo cycle is gonna be healthier than a tren/winny cycle. 2 grams of anything is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion you’re abusing yourself at that level.

Also there is no doubt genetics and lifestyle are the largest factors

If you’re informed on the subject, you have to weigh it out on the scale for potential health ramifications VS getting that 405 bench press with chemical assistance

I misinterpreted you’re post, as specified above. However ny statement still stands… tren and winny is probably one of the most dangerous AAS combos in terms of impact upon longevity

Now obviously there’s a difference between

150mg tren
20mg winny

And 600mg tren
50mg winny


200mg test
1500mg primo


In which case option one (the tren/winny) is probably the safest, but then again we just don’t have adequate literature on the subject

Exactly what I’m saying, I don’t disagree. Even at that the 150Tren/50winny cycle you wrote up might be healthier than that 200test 1500primo cycle but we just don’t know you’re right we’re only making assumptions at this level

I honestly think running higher Test was unhealthy for me due to the water retention. The intracellular water retention I imagine was hard on my heart. Carrying an extra 30lbs of water and blood pressure is elevated like that.

I’m gonna have to say low dosages of Test with a non aromatising steroid like a dht would probably be the healthier steroid cycle for me personally

I’d say 100mgs of Test a week with like 400primo or maybe 400mast or 50mg anavar a day may possibly be healthier on the cardiovascular system than 500mgs of Test alone but I really don’t know that’s just a guess I’m definitely not a doctor.

I have zero doubt that Tren & Winny combo would impact your health, all of it does even TRT dosages do impact your health. As you know 150mg of Tren a WK & 50 winny ED isn’t nowhere near 600 Tren a wk and 100mg of winny ed.

I think you could responsibly use stronger substances and you can also flat out abuse them.

Personally I like to live out a happy medium, hence why I don’t use large scale dosages/stronger compounds. That being said, given I might have broken off all my old friendships since getting back, I may start taking… life in general… quite a bit more seriously… it’s a struggle not to use the stronger compounds at the moment, especially given the fact that I don’t particularly have anything else going on in my life, bodybuilding has (and will always be) a stabilising influence, it’s one of the few things that makes me happy

But I’m not short sighted enough to think “well things are shit now, they’ll obviously never get better”. So I’ve made the resolution, give it 6 months to a year… it took me ages to make friends (even if they turned out to not be the greatest)… if things aren’t looking up in 6 months then I might just pull the plug and start outright cycling, perhaps even attempt to step on stage… it isn’t the right ideology nor is it the healthiest option, but if things don’t get any better…

Six months is a relatively short time, perhaps a few years might be more optimal… however I went through the last few years exactly the way I am now, without a distraction etc it’s awful… after my trip in Europe I’ve found I have the ability to socialise, so getting out there (esp in the work environment), perhaps going on a few dates etc… It may be shit now but I’m sure it’ll improve within the next few months

Personally I wouldn’t do mini cycles and lightly suppress your natural production like that. I’d say either go it all the way or just don’t do it at all but that’s only my opinion. Small amounts still disrupt your bodies balance

Personally I’d go all out on a blast, then PCT get my natural production back and stay off for awhile and let my body balance itself out

Also I wouldn’t let the number of friends you have or whatever the direction of your life that your going in at that moment be the contributing factor on your decision to use PEDs or not.

Life is full of peaks and valleys. One day your up the next day your down that’s life. That’s why you just gotta push through no matter what’s going on

Also if you have a history of depression I definitely wouldn’t do a steroid cycle, especially because PCT can f**k you up harder making you feel low hence why guys just blast & cruise so they don’t go through that madness of recovery or loss of dem gainzzz

I’m on TRT

History of reactive depression, not clinical depression (depression relating to extensive bullying, chronic pain etc)

Surprisingly, even in shitty situations like I am in currently, I don’t tend to get “depressed”, I tend to get irritated and/or angry that things didn’t turn out adequately… and I resent those who treat me badly despite the fact that I’m nothing but kind towards them. Though the notion of expecting good things in return for kindness is incredibly flawed and somewhat selfish… though I do frequently wonder “what the hell did I do to deserve this”… and the answer is “nothing”… everyone has their own story, and some are just assholes. Teenagers as a whole lack the ability to reasonate with others, put themselves in others shoes or show empathy to an adequate extent (granted there are exceptions, myself being one of them)… but the majority of teenagers are incredibly selfish creatures who think only for themselves. I attribute this to incomplete prefrontal cortex development and lack of world knowledge. Many also have the notion that they think they know everything, yet take them out of their little comfort zone/friend group bubble and stick them somewhere unfamiliar, without parental guardians or others to bail them out… they won’t last a day… especially with this current generation, incredibly bored, sheltered and self centred (social media for certain isn’t helping here)

If I had a history regarding legitimate clinical depression I wouldn’t touch anything. Dopaminergic dysregulation (test will increase dopamine output initially, then receptors for said neurotransmitter will downregulate in response to chronically increased output, 19nors directly deplete serotonin, dopamine, reduce cellular density etc)… for someone with legitimate preexisting neurological dysregulation (say major depressive disorder etc) cycling can be a terrible idea… particularly 19-Nora… then again many with bipolar disorder cycle. Whether or not I have clinical depression is unknown, I’ve been suicidal before when I was VERY young in response to fairly extensive bullying (didn’t reach out for help, in the same situation today I would’ve handled things very differently)… but none of that is important

Solid advice here, but my contributing factor depends on how far I wish to take the notion of bodybuilding as a whole. If there’s say nothing in my life years down the line, yet the prospect of competitive bodybuilding has always been a dream of mine, I see no reason not to try step on stage once or twice. If I have a solid foundation (career, things to do in my free time etc) then perhaps the notion of bodybuilding in general won’t pertain as much significance as it has in the past/does now. In which case I’m waiting to ensure this is what I want

At my age, prospects change rapidly, at the click of a button, hence I believe going down the rabbit hole now would be rather irresponsible. I’m a kid, I enjoy doing kid things… but say there’s no one to do them with and I’m forced to grow up quickly (as I’ve been forced to do in the past) and the prospects of bodybuilding seriously stills pertains an incredible allure to me

Then there’s the notion of chronic pain… how the fuck would I step on stage? I imagine cutting down to very low levels of bf% would be incredibly difficult for me (actually I’m going to be trying that over the next few months, just to see if I can handle getting down to say 8%)

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I hold no resentment in my heart towards anybody. That shit will fester inside you. I also don’t think about could’ve, would’ve, should’ve situations in my life anymore. Dwelling in the past does no good for your present or future self. I move forward and think about what I can do from this moment on to get to that goal

Also IMO hate, anger, resentment, jealousy are a woman’s emotion. Not manly emotions

Although I used to have a lot of all those emotions in my life I realized that’s the closest emotions to put you closer in connection to evil.

Not saying I don’t get angry sometimes but it’s not often and it’s not for long I catch myself.

Also I agree social media is fucking people up because people are too busy comparing themselves to others

Also you could become a bodybuilder just because you enjoy it, in order to become pro bodybuilder status you’ve gotta have top tier genetics like 0.001% of the population have that to compete in the Olympia or IFBB level.

Doesn’t mean you cant kick everyone’s ass at all your local region shows though and look good even if you don’t go pro

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I disagree with this particular viewpoint as I denounce the notion of characteristics/assigned emotions designated to gender… however you’ve advice certainly made me think… and you’re right, certain emotions/hatred I have instilled upon numerous individuals served only to drag me further down. It only hurts me harbouring resentment/residual hate, these other people… they don’t care, they couldn’t give a fuck about me so why should I care about them

Then the problem stems from jealousy (somewhat), as much as I hate jealousy, I can’t help but think “these people get to have fun, they’ve got friends, girlfriends etc… yet they’re such terrible people, so why should they prosper while I suffer predominantly because of people like them?”… I suppose such thinking is short sighted, because when I realistically think “where will I be in twenty years vs where will some of these people be”… the difference is (probably) going to be rather stark… BUT then the question begs was it worth it? Would I rather be normal, live out an average life and prosper at a young age or challenge the conventions of normality but suffer throughout the first twenty five years of my life? I just don’t know

And even then. I don’t know what destiny has planned for me, will I ever find purpose? Is there even purpose to life or is it all just about following what makes us happy (the individual, not greater society)… it’s these existentialist dilemmas particularly that bother me so much lol

Perhaps… perhaps I’ll look into entering a local show later this year, it’ll take some serious prep work/dedication… and I don’t want to use trenbolone (it’d be reserved for serious competing for very short durations of time if I ever had to use it)… same goes for stanozolol… just no… don’t want to push over 500mg weekly either. I’m aware many abuse rampantly even at the most amateur of levels, however I’m also a firm believer that if you’re smart about how you use, you can get away with far less.

Supposedly the golden era bodybuilders used far less, were on 3-500 mg year round with a few 6-8 week breaks in between. There were exceptions like Mike Mentzer who supposedly went up to TWO GRAMS of deca! But I’d believe someone like frank Zane could’ve achieved that physique (his earlier days) being on say 300-400mg year round, esp considering they didn’t use test (say he used 200mg deca and some dbol to bulk up in the offseason, then primo/var for a competition)… it isn’t optimal, But they didn’t know any better… and they had doctors prescriptions/access to monitoring

I don’t wish to follow the same ideology, however I do believe if I’m smart enough and don’t go further than the local level I can get by minimilastically

Should also be noted, many of these guys also used amphetamines whilst cutting to curb appetite, terrible… terrible idea (Mike Mentzer developed a dependence/addiction). I know Arnold (the extent has been speculated) also smoked cannabis… used as an appetite stimulant, also not the greatest idea given the long term detriment that can stem from daily use

Whilst the dosages weren’t as high, abuse was still the norm (esp the notion of high dose amphetamine to cut weight)… I’ve heard rumours some of the golden age guys even managed to acquire/experiment with cadaver pituitary extracted GH (risky)