T Nation

Tw1st's Next Cycle

Hey guys, I know its been awhile but I’m back and ready to kick off a new cycle! Here’s the layout of my next cycle. My goal is to put on dry lean muscle, with as little bloat as possible. Considering that every type of AAS I’ve run has made me bloat ridiculously, even my last cycle Test P/Mast/Tren A. I’m still throwing around some ideas of different additions but here is the base cycle:

10 week cycle Totals
Test E week 1-10: 600mg/week = 6000mg
Mast P week 1-10: 400mg/week = 4000mg
Deca week 1-10: 500mg/week = 5000mg

Thinking about also adding some Tren A or Injectable Winny.
Either one if added would be run for the first 6 weeks.

Adex on hand to combat any bloat.

PCT
Standard Test Taper.
100 80 60 40 20
Nolvadex and clomid if needed.

As far as diet goes I plan on eating extremely clean.
Let me know what you guys think.

-tw1st

so… test and deca for a dry mass cycle? and no letro? and the adex is just ‘on hand’?

maybe a leetle rethink is in order…

you have a short ester masteron with 2 long ester drugs…

you are using alot of masteron too.

What about this…

Test prop
Tren Ace
Mast Prop

or

Test prop
NPP
Mast Prop

or

Test Prop
Mast Prop
Winstrol

or

Test Prop
Tren Ace
Winstrol

etc etc…

Your ratio of test to deca may be too close for little Tw1st’s liking…and how will you control prolactin? Plans for caber, or something of the like?

I’m a little surprised you had bloat issues last time around, since the mast is known to help offset test’s ability to aromatize. What were your dosages?

[quote]5.0 wrote:
Your ratio of test to deca may be too close for little Tw1st’s liking…and how will you control prolactin? Plans for caber, or something of the like?

I’m a little surprised you had bloat issues last time around, since the mast is known to help offset test’s ability to aromatize. What were your dosages?[/quote]

Sorry I was falling asleep when I posed this thread last night.
I still have ample caber from my previous cycle that would be used if progesterone gyno became prevalent.

My doses for my previous cycle were:

500mg Test Prop/week (weeks 1-10)
525mg Tren Ace/week (weeks 1-8)
450mg Mast P/Week (weeks 6-10)

I guess it could have possibly been fake gear and I was injecting some shitty test or something along those lines. But my diet was clean so who knows.

I wouldn’t mind doing the same cycle but I’m just hesitant for to bloat like that again. And to be honest I wasn’t all that impressed with Tren A.

My reason for using long ester drugs is to avoid ED injections
as much as possible, or have to inject as little as possible if when i do. My last cycle dumping 2ml every day wasn’t exactly a pleasurable experience and I like injecting! But I’d like to avoid if possible.I like the suggestions of cycles you gave. If i didn’t mention before the cycle I is still in the ruff planning stages and won’t be done til November, so my outline of ancillaries was limited, my fault.

Also side note, during my last excursion with AAS my last package was seized coming from over seas; so I have decided to give a new domestic source a go around. I don’t need another run in with customs. This new source only provides injectables domestically so that’s the reason I’m not using any orals.

-tw1st

[quote] Brook wrote:
so… test and deca for a dry mass cycle? and no letro? and the adex is just ‘on hand’?

maybe a leetle rethink is in order…

you have a short ester masteron with 2 long ester drugs…

you are using alot of masteron too.

What about this…

Test prop
Tren Ace
Mast Prop

or

Test prop
NPP
Mast Prop

or

Test Prop
Mast Prop
Winstrol

or

Test Prop
Tren Ace
Winstrol

etc etc…[/quote]

[quote]tw1st wrote:
My doses for my previous cycle were:

500mg Test Prop/week (weeks 1-10)
525mg Tren Ace/week (weeks 1-8)
450mg Mast P/Week (weeks 6-10)

I guess it could have possibly been fake gear and I was injecting some shitty test or something along those lines. But my diet was clean so who knows.

I wouldn’t mind doing the same cycle but I’m just hesitant for to bloat like that again. And to be honest I wasn’t all that impressed with Tren A.[/quote]

Hmm, maybe some was bunk, and some wasn’t. Sounds at the very least, the test was good. Or maybe the a’dex underdosed or bad. Too many unknowns. My next question was whether you were planning on using the same source, since it seemed the last was questionable, but you answered that in your reply to JJ.

You’re one of the few who hasn’t been impressed with the tren, interesting. What overall gains did you make? That was a pretty stout cycle.

Test prop
NPP
Mast Prop

What is that like for gains? Vs Sides?

[quote]Bud83bud wrote:
Test prop
NPP
Mast Prop

What is that like for gains? Vs Sides?

[/quote]

Great cycle. The gains are good, the feeling while on is great, the performance is great, the sides aren’t bad and I personally do not notice any with estrogen control except for small acne on my chest at the beginning (which is par for the course with me with most cycles).

Npp seems stronger than Deca for some reason even though the actual mg is the same with the long ester and the short ester or nandrolone, as oppose to test’s propionate vs cypionate for example. In other words, 350mg/week NPP seems like 500mg/week Deca to me. To make an addition I quite enjoy:

Prop 525mg/week
Dbol 175mg/week (injectable)
NPP 350mg/week
Mast 350mg/week
All ran for 8 weeks or so - only thing that would beat that cycle is to swop the NPP for Tren, but then you’re looking at different effects, sides, etc.

Would like to note that sides will kick in much faster than Deca, and for those that are sensitive to Deca gyno should make sure to control estrogen from the beginning - no senseless “just in case” or “on hand” silly talk.

Plus, I guess if Prolactin is really an issue for someone, even at these sane and sensible doses that even though it is probably in your head, I would run your Dopamine Antagonist from the beginning as well - I much enjoy Dostinex for it’s other effects and find it to be quite a compliment to 19-nor’s for more than just the Prolactin issue which to me is a none issue with proper cycling.

Also would like to suggest this cycle to the OP

nice post, nicer cycle.

may do one similar at some point. :slight_smile:

[quote]tw1st wrote:
500mg Test Prop/week (weeks 1-10)
525mg Tren Ace/week (weeks 1-8)
450mg Mast P/Week (weeks 6-10)

I guess it could have possibly been fake gear and I was injecting some shitty test or something along those lines. But my diet was clean so who knows.

I wouldn’t mind doing the same cycle but I’m just hesitant for to bloat like that again. And to be honest I wasn’t all that impressed with Tren A.

[/quote]

I wouldn’t be surprised if what you thought was tren was actually test. A lot of UG gear is heavily cut with test these days.

Either way, that’s a pretty heavy duty cycle. The 500mg of prop alone is enough to make some bloat even with mast and a clean diet.

[quote]TheBeat2 wrote:
Prop 525mg/week
Dbol 175mg/week (injectable)
NPP 350mg/week
Mast 350mg/week
All ran for 8 weeks or so - only thing that would beat that cycle is to swop the NPP for Tren, but then you’re looking at different effects, sides, etc.

[/quote]

TheBeat2,

The cycle sounds awesome. I wish i had access to Injectable dbol and NPP.

The source I’m about to try has only basic injectables.

Would both Adex and letrozole be necessary to avoid bloating on a cycle containing 600mg Test P/week?

[quote]tw1st wrote:
Would both Adex and letrozole be necessary to avoid bloating on a cycle containing 600mg Test P/week?[/quote]

No.
One or the other. I would use Arimidex unless the dosage got really high or 19-nor’s where added to the mix. Bloat also has much to do with diet.

Bloat has just about all to do with diet in my opinion. A good friend of mine went into a show on a gram and a half of test and 100mg of anadrol per day. He was surely not the least bit bloated.

I find that as long as I watch my carbs and sodium/salt intake bloat is minimized on just about any cycle.

In the past I’ve bloated so much it was ridiculous, even on tren, test p and mast. My diet was clean.It was probably bunk though.

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Bloat has just about all to do with diet in my opinion. A good friend of mine went into a show on a gram and a half of test and 100mg of anadrol per day. He was surely not the least bit bloated.

I find that as long as I watch my carbs and sodium/salt intake bloat is minimized on just about any cycle.[/quote]

Good to see you back tw1st.
I agree that bloat is a reflection of diet to a degree.
Regarding your product selection in your OP, I’d probably encourage you to switch your nor19’s. Tren is much leaner and drier than Deca for me and I’d say for all. If you do though 400mg of Mast and 500mg of Tren is a bit high IMO. I’d drop them down a tad each. If you have experience at a Mast dose that high than thats fine and go for it.

The other thought I had for you would be Test,EQ,Tren

[quote]saps wrote:
Good to see you back tw1st.
I agree that bloat is a reflection of diet to a degree.
Regarding your product selection in your OP, I’d probably encourage you to switch your nor19’s. Tren is much leaner and drier than Deca for me and I’d say for all. If you do though 400mg of Mast and 500mg of Tren is a bit high IMO. I’d drop them down a tad each. If you have experience at a Mast dose that high than thats fine and go for it.
The other thought I had for you would be Test,EQ,Tren[/quote]

Saps good to see you too buddy,

I think I’ve decided that Test and Tren are going to be the
base for this cycle. I’m still messing around with some other ideas as far as other compounds to possibly throw into the mix.

As far as test goes would you recommend a short or long ester?
My goals are to put on lean muscle and dry out, so I would assume Test P would be the way to go. Just want to hear your opinion.

-tw1st

I got this source I stumbled upon and it seems legit. Can I PM a few of you guys get some opinions about it?

IMO Cycle duration should guide ester selection. Anything more than 8 weeks and I’d go with an Enanthate. I mean why not. Running Test Prop for 12 weeks or Tren Ace for 10 weeks? The less shots the better.

Now having said that with Tren, it is more common to find Ace than Enan. So if all you got is Tren Ace then so be it. But with Test since the most common esters are all readily available everywhere might as well pick the one which best matches your cycle duration.

Also again, its false to think Test Prop and Tren Ace will give you a leaner physique than Test Cyp and Tren Enan. Diet and very secondarily exercise will control that. There are no cutting steroids per se. Although it is hard to get fat on tren.

Any Test and any Tren should [with proper diet] give you good lean mass gains. Dryness of course can also be control with an AI; though that can be a complicated science.

Saps,

As always man thanks for the great insight, changes a lot. I got a little more thinking to do and I’m going to rework my cycle layout and throw it up later.

-tw1st

[quote]saps wrote:
IMO Cycle duration should guide ester selection. Anything more than 8 weeks and I’d go with an Enanthate. I mean why not. Running Test Prop for 12 weeks or Tren Ace for 10 weeks? The less shots the better.
Now having said that with Tren, it is more common to find Ace than Enan. So if all you got is Tren Ace then so be it. But with Test since the most common esters are all readily available everywhere might as well pick the one which best matches your cycle duration.

Also again, its false to think Test Prop and Tren Ace will give you a leaner physique than Test Cyp and Tren Enan. Diet and very secondarily exercise will control that. There are no cutting steroids per se. Although it is hard to get fat on tren.

Any Test and any Tren should [with proper diet] give you good lean mass gains. Dryness of course can also be control with an AI; though that can be a complicated science.[/quote]