T Nation

Turned 22, Bloodwork Question


#1

What do you think about my blood work numbers from last summer? I was 20 at the time. I haven't changed at all since then from what I've noticed (height, weight, strength, mood, energy). The blood work was:

Testosterone, Serum: 578 ng/dL
LH: 5.9 mIU/mL
FSH: 2.7 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 36.1 pg/mL

age (22)
-height (6'3.25")
-waist (32")
-weight (162 pounds)
-describe body and facial hair (dark facial hair, grows thickest on chin and mustache but patchy on cheeks, hairy legs and pubic region, hair coming in on stomach and chest, armpit hair (though less than most and didn't come in until I was around 18). I've recently noticed what I think is a receding hairline and early male pattern baldness.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed (don't carry much fat, maybe ass, chest, and stomach if that. I've had a small, sometimes almost unnoticeable gyno lump under my left nipple since I was 14)

-health conditions, symptoms- (no diagnosed health conditions or bothersome symptoms)

-Rx and OTC drugs (No drugs)

-lab results with ranges
Testosterone, Serum: 578 ng/dL
LH: 5.9 mIU/mL
FSH: 2.7 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 36.1 pg/mL

-describe diet (no starvation diet, generally 3000 calories a day. Eat a lot of oatmeal, salmon, chicken, beef, whey, almonds, coconut oil, spinach, broccoli. Drink mostly water and milk. Gained 5-10 pounds of solid weight from March 2013 to May 2013 by drinking a gallon of milk per day)

-describe training (Been working out since I was 13, but most consistently for last 3 or 4 years. I haven't had much of an increase in strength over this time though. I have had to take breaks due to shoulder impingement and elbow tendonitis problems (very frustrating). I've mostly done 3 day splits focusing on compound movements (Squat, Bench, Press, Deadlift). About a month ago, I switched up my routine to a chest and triceps day, back and biceps day, and legs and shoulders day.

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? (they have ached briefly (an hour if that) in the past, but nothing recent or anything that has really bothered me. I might possibly have slight variococele in my right nut, but that could just be nothing. I don't get fevers really. I'm not really worried about this)

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed (My morning wood is generally a really full flaccid dick or an erection. I don't usually have nocturnal erections. This has always been the case)


#2

Estrogen dominance. Cannot suggest more without more info as per the advice for new guys sticky. And post all lab work. Be open minded to causes, low T may be a symptom of something else that needs to be dealt with.

Keep all of your posts that involve your “case” in this thread. Do not post personal details in the stickies. -thanks


#3

bump


#4

read before you bump! ;}


#5

[quote]KSman wrote:
read before you bump! ;}[/quote]

Alright, I added info in the original post. So you say estrogen dominance. Where do I go from here?


#6

Also, what do you think about taking Tribulus pills?

Also, I recently purchased some RegenePure Dr shampoo to prevent hairloss. The active ingredient in it is Ketoconazole (which has been shown to decrease testosterone production and be harmful to the liver if taken in high enough doses orally). It is of course only used topically in the shampoo, believed to have a disruptive effect on DHT in the scalp. Could this be absorbed and cause problems elsewhere in the body, or is this a safe to use product?

I also bought a bottle of Tricomin Conditioning Shampoo, which is supposed to be healthy for your hair and aid in hair loss prevention. Its key ingredient is a copper peptide formula that is believed to do a variety of good things to your hair, one of which they describe as- “Inhibition of 5-alpha reductase (the enzyme that reduces testosterone to DHT â?? its active metabolite reponsible for androgenetic alopecia)” Does this sound safe?

Thanks


#7

I would avoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoconazole unless there really is a fungal problem. Fungal vulnerability can be worse if there are trace mineral deficiencies. ie zinc, copper, selenium and other no doubt. There are DHT specific shampoos. Yes, fungal drugs can mess with your hormones.

Estrogen: Still binging on milk? Try less milk. Whey powder probably has less hormones than fresh milk. You could try 1/2 mg anastrozole per week in EOD divided doses and that really calls for a liquid product. Search google [research chemical anastrozole] https://www.google.com/search?q=research+chemical+anastrozole


#8

[quote]KSman wrote:
I would avoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoconazole unless there really is a fungal problem. Fungal vulnerability can be worse if there are trace mineral deficiencies. ie zinc, copper, selenium and other no doubt. There are DHT specific shampoos. Yes, fungal drugs can mess with your hormones.

Estrogen: Still binging on milk? Try less milk. Whey powder probably has less hormones than fresh milk. You could try 1/2 mg anastrozole per week in EOD divided doses and that really calls for a liquid product. Search google [research chemical anastrozole] https://www.google.com/search?q=research+chemical+anastrozole[/quote]

You say there are DHT specific shampoos. Are there any you recommend?


#9

[quote]KSman wrote:
I would avoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoconazole unless there really is a fungal problem. Fungal vulnerability can be worse if there are trace mineral deficiencies. ie zinc, copper, selenium and other no doubt. There are DHT specific shampoos. Yes, fungal drugs can mess with your hormones.

Estrogen: Still binging on milk? Try less milk. Whey powder probably has less hormones than fresh milk. You could try 1/2 mg anastrozole per week in EOD divided doses and that really calls for a liquid product. Search google [research chemical anastrozole] https://www.google.com/search?q=research+chemical+anastrozole[/quote]

Question about using Arimidex: I have read that people prefer to use Aromasin over Arimidex while on AS cycles. Do you think it would be better than Arimidex. Also, would I be able to come off the Arimidex/Aromasin eventually once I get my estrogen into check?

Thanks


#10

What is your opinion of Tribulus and the Tricomin shampoo I described? Thanks


#11

What is an AS cycle? Automatizing steroid? Not much cycle talk here, TRT is forever…

Only 13,000,000 hits, ask your pharmacist. https://www.google.com/search?q=shampoo+hair+loss
What country are you in? Products are not global. Note that these are delaying tactics and one probably looses their hair in the end.

Tricomin might work, but you need one that has a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor drug in it. Copper may not be sufficient.

Most do very well on anastrozole. Some of the few who do not manage better on Aromasin. So you want to do well with 1mg/week or 25mg per week. The conversations are skewing the reality.

You stated that you want higher T levels. Your case suggests that you might get that with lower E2 levels. Expecting a permanent change so you do not need an AI is deep in the wishing well. You seem to be slim, so loosing fat does not seem to be an option. In any case, 0.5mg is not much of a burden. You might lower E2 if you find that something that you are in jesting/absorbing is reducing your liver’s ability to clear E2. You could also have AST/ALT lab work done in that regard. And milk may be overloading your ability to clear E2. Avoid soy and other sources of phytoestrogens.


#12

Ok thanks. You say 0.5 mg a day isn’t much of a burden. This wouldn’t be bad for my liver would it? I have a common harmless liver condition called Gilbert’s Syndrome that has no symptoms other than slightly increased bilibrubin in the bloodstream. 5-10% of the population has it, and its generally symptomless.

If you think its safe, would Aromasin work fine in place of Arimidex?

Thanks


#13

Also, I drink all of my water from disposable plastic bottles. I do that to avoid fluoride, which is believed to be harmful. Which would you suggest: plastic bottles or tap water?


#14

That was 1/2 mg anastrozole per week, not per day. You can try aromasin, you will need to take around 25 times as much. I have never seen any dose of anastrozole associated with liver problems. I have seen problems with very low E2 levels and we do not go there.

Most people do not think that fluorides are a problem. Plastic bottles have issues with estrogen like chemicals. Tap water is probably better. You can get a britta filter and refill a water bottle that is “safe”.


#15

Thanks KSman. I think I’m going try cleaning my diet up as much as possible, making sure to get a lot of the vitamins you recommended through food sources. See what that does for me.

If that doesn’t work, you say 0.5 mg per week (EOD) should be good, so I’ll give that a try if the other fails. Tell me this, what would be a good ratio for my Test serum to Estradiol be?


#16

Ratio is not a good target. You need high normal TT, good FT and near E2=22pg/ml
Many feel great on that.

Do not expect any diet to resolve E2 issues; just get the drug. Please read the stickies for more info re dosing and calculating dose changes…


#17

[quote]KSman wrote:
Ratio is not a good target. You need high normal TT, good FT and near E2=22pg/ml
Many feel great on that.

Do not expect any diet to resolve E2 issues; just get the drug. Please read the stickies for more info re dosing and calculating dose changes.[/quote]

Alright man, appreciate the insight


#18

Ok I got about 10 pages into the Estrodial sticky, and that is a lot of information.

From what I read, it sounds like blood serum testing is very inaccurate, and my supposed levels could have been completely different in another hour. So should I be trying to get a 24 hour urine test and find out the details of my E2 and E3 levels? Does Lab Corp offer that now, and can I set it up all online? How would me knowing information about my E2 AND E3 levels change the treatment you advised for me?

Also, what is the general cost of the 24 hour urine test, how often should I have it done, and what all should I be testing for?

And when I read about the dosing of Arimidex, it was being discussed in drops. Is this an injection? If so where is it injected? I am familiar with the drug in tablet form, does the tablet come in small enough doses? Would the tablet form put unwanted stress on the liver?

Thanks


#19

When I asked about good shampoos for hair loss, you mentioned there being DHT specific shampoos. Are there any you recommend?

The Regenepure I purchased (that contains Ketoconazole) is one of the best-reviewed DHT specific shampoos you can buy. You say you would avoid it, and I know fungal drugs can disrupt hormones, but is a topical treatment in shampoo form really much of a risk? I don’t think I’ve read any reviews about people people having developed fungal infections on there heads because of using it either.

Would the local disruption of DHT on the scalp cause a negative change in DHT production throughout the body?


#20

There is nothing wrong with serum testing. We know what serum levels are associated with best energy and libido. Do not get lost in the side shows.

If you want to combat hair loss, a topical is the least offensive.

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