OP, you have no business being on the junk program you crafted yourself. I know females IRL that have trained for a few months doing more weight that you.
No offense, get on the basic 5x5 programs and stick with it before jumping into this mumbo jumbo . I would think at the least, members of this forum would want you at a 2/3/4 plate b-s-d before doing something like this… look at every single one of the top successful bodybuilders, they all started by power training for YEARS!!!
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
OP, you have no business being on the junk program you crafted yourself. I know females IRL that have trained for a few months doing more weight that you.
No offense, get on the basic 5x5 programs and stick with it before jumping into this mumbo jumbo . I would think at the least, members of this forum would want you at a 2/3/4 plate b-s-d before doing something like this… look at every single one of the top successful bodybuilders, they all started by power training for YEARS!!![/quote]
I’m not sure what you base this statement on. I know you’re a fan of Reg Park’s training methods, but I would say most successful bodybuilders in the last 30-40 years have mostly done bodybuilding routines and not 5x5, which isn’t a routine, but a set/rep scheme. I know there were some professional bodybuilders that started in powerlifting, but I would say a lot more trained for bodybuilding from early on. Anyway, not trying to be inflammatory, but I’m questioning the accuracy of your above statement. I may have misunderstood your point, however.
There is a misconception that one should reach some arbitrary numbers on the big lifts before switching to a split routine. Some go as far as to say you shouldn’t do direct arm training until you reach these numbers. Neglecting isolation work will result in lagging body parts and sometimes imbalance and injury.
Again, not trying to start an argument, but if someone is lifting for physique improvement they shouldn’t worry as much about their numbers on the three power lifts as progressing in general.
that’s a matter of preference. he can follow a body part split if he wants, but as I posted earlier, I’d train more than 3x a week.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
OP, you have no business being on the junk program you crafted yourself. I know females IRL that have trained for a few months doing more weight that you.
No offense, get on the basic 5x5 programs and stick with it before jumping into this mumbo jumbo . I would think at the least, members of this forum would want you at a 2/3/4 plate b-s-d before doing something like this… look at every single one of the top successful bodybuilders, they all started by power training for YEARS!!![/quote]
Seems like you and I are the only ones who promote 5x5…its the only way to go in the beginning
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Seems like you and I are the only ones who promote 5x5…its the only way to go in the beginning[/quote]
You are also both young. 5x5 is an often misunderstood loading scheme and not a universal program. There is a misconception that beginners have to do a simple program that focuses only on the three powerlifts until they reach some arbitrary numbers and only then can they go off and specialize in whatever they want to do.
The question I’m asking is why, if a person’s goal is bodybuilding, should they start out ignoring isolation work. Ignoring isolation work altogether will likely lead to imbalances and lagging bodyparts.
There is nothing wrong with the old school programs, but they are not magical either. What is important is an individual’s training methods match their goals. I’m not saying a pure beginner should be on a six or seven day split, but they shouldn’t ignore any component that directly contributes to their long term goals.
Anyway, I’m not dogging on a fellow Hoosier here, I’m just saying that there is no one magical program that beginners have to start on. Training should be goal oriented. Also, if you are still lifting in ten years or more, I guarentee that how you train will change many times over the years.
pick any program, do it for 1 year, missing less than 5 workouts, eat well, eat to grow, eat to get shredzz just pick what you want and do it. do it consistantly.
Should put you in good shape.
[quote]ryno76 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Seems like you and I are the only ones who promote 5x5…its the only way to go in the beginning[/quote]
You are also both young. 5x5 is an often misunderstood loading scheme and not a universal program. There is a misconception that beginners have to do a simple program that focuses only on the three powerlifts until they reach some arbitrary numbers and only then can they go off and specialize in whatever they want to do.
The question I’m asking is why, if a person’s goal is bodybuilding, should they start out ignoring isolation work. Ignoring isolation work altogether will likely lead to imbalances and lagging bodyparts.
There is nothing wrong with the old school programs, but they are not magical either. What is important is an individual’s training methods match their goals. I’m not saying a pure beginner should be on a six or seven day split, but they shouldn’t ignore any component that directly contributes to their long term goals.
Anyway, I’m not dogging on a fellow Hoosier here, I’m just saying that there is no one magical program that beginners have to start on. Training should be goal oriented. Also, if you are still lifting in ten years or more, I guarentee that how you train will change many times over the years.
[/quote]
I just try to push the things that have worked and are working for me. In the end hes really just going to have to find out what works for himself with guidelines from others.
IUBB
[quote]chobbs wrote:
I just try to push the things that have worked and are working for me. In the end hes really just going to have to find out what works for himself with guidelines from others.
IUBB[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that. My posts were meant to encourage critical thinking, not be criticisms. The fact that you already realize people have to find out what works for them puts you far ahead of a lot of people. I would have made more progress if I had realized this at your age. Unfortunately, when I got serious about lifting weights I bought into a particular dogma that I was too stubborn to realize was holding me back for a couple years. Anyway, good luck.
Goals are good. 5’9 167lbs and 20% bf and you wana be like goldberg in a year?
Cool.
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
OP, you have no business being on the junk program you crafted yourself. I know females IRL that have trained for a few months doing more weight that you.
No offense, get on the basic 5x5 programs and stick with it before jumping into this mumbo jumbo . I would think at the least, members of this forum would want you at a 2/3/4 plate b-s-d before doing something like this… look at every single one of the top successful bodybuilders, they all started by power training for YEARS!!![/quote]
Seems like you and I are the only ones who promote 5x5…its the only way to go in the beginning[/quote]
No. It’s not.
As a true beginner, I never even used a ‘program’ and made substantial gains anyway. Programming really only becomes once you have a base level of strength. OP’s lifts are absolutely terrible, he’s essentially untrained.
Honestly, showing up at the gym several times a week, performing compound movements with relative intensity will do it for now. Talking about rear delts, rotator cuff work, all that mess, is absurd. I’ve done absolutely NO rotator work in my life.
These are the pitfalls that new guys fall into, sweating the small stuff, analyzing everything. Eat well, lift hard. Repeat. That’s it. Come back when you’re ready for advanced advice. Although really, it never changes much.
[quote]ryno76 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
I just try to push the things that have worked and are working for me. In the end hes really just going to have to find out what works for himself with guidelines from others.
IUBB[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that. My posts were meant to encourage critical thinking, not be criticisms. The fact that you already realize people have to find out what works for them puts you far ahead of a lot of people. I would have made more progress if I had realized this at your age. Unfortunately, when I got serious about lifting weights I bought into a particular dogma that I was too stubborn to realize was holding me back for a couple years. Anyway, good luck. [/quote]
You too brotha
Okay. There’s way too much to quote and reply to.
I was doing 5x5 last year after I lost all that weight but I had the nagging feeling that I’m ignoring way too much by concentrating on just the Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press and Barbell Rows.
And shortly after that, college put me off my schedule way too bad and I stopped.
And ouch at that comment about knowing females who’ve had better numbers than me, training for a few months.
So my lifts are weak and I need to work on them more, working a little less on the isolation work, I gather from all the posts on here?
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
Okay. There’s way too much to quote and reply to.
I was doing 5x5 last year after I lost all that weight but I had the nagging feeling that I’m ignoring way too much by concentrating on just the Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press and Barbell Rows.
And shortly after that, college put me off my schedule way too bad and I stopped.
And ouch at that comment about knowing females who’ve had better numbers than me, training for a few months.
So my lifts are weak and I need to work on them more, working a little less on the isolation work, I gather from all the posts on here?[/quote]
A couple things:
Bottom line is, your level of commitment to attaining the physique you’re after is what will determine your results. You have to want it, and you have to put in the time to earn it.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
Okay. There’s way too much to quote and reply to.
I was doing 5x5 last year after I lost all that weight but I had the nagging feeling that I’m ignoring way too much by concentrating on just the Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press and Barbell Rows.
And shortly after that, college put me off my schedule way too bad and I stopped.
And ouch at that comment about knowing females who’ve had better numbers than me, training for a few months.
So my lifts are weak and I need to work on them more, working a little less on the isolation work, I gather from all the posts on here?[/quote]
A couple things:
Bottom line is, your level of commitment to attaining the physique you’re after is what will determine your results. You have to want it, and you have to put in the time to earn it.[/quote]
Ah, that’s nice to hear.
I’m probably moving to a new city next week, but I’m not going to let that affect my workout. First thing-find a new gym.
And wow, you do just the big lifts and you look like that? 
NO isolation whatsoever? That sets a few things straight in my head.
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
Okay. There’s way too much to quote and reply to.
I was doing 5x5 last year after I lost all that weight but I had the nagging feeling that I’m ignoring way too much by concentrating on just the Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press and Barbell Rows.
And shortly after that, college put me off my schedule way too bad and I stopped.
And ouch at that comment about knowing females who’ve had better numbers than me, training for a few months.
So my lifts are weak and I need to work on them more, working a little less on the isolation work, I gather from all the posts on here?[/quote]
A couple things:
Bottom line is, your level of commitment to attaining the physique you’re after is what will determine your results. You have to want it, and you have to put in the time to earn it.[/quote]
Ah, that’s nice to hear.
I’m probably moving to a new city next week, but I’m not going to let that affect my workout. First thing-find a new gym.
And wow, you do just the big lifts and you look like that?
NO isolation whatsoever? That sets a few things straight in my head.[/quote]
I do ALMOST no isolation work. Mondays and Thursdays I usually do a little (maybe 10 minutes of it). Some curls and pressdowns or something like that, with a lightweight (I almost never curl heavier than 25lb dumbbells). The isolation comes at the end of the workout, and it’s just some easy work for a little extra volume in the weight session. It’s truly not necessary, just something I’ll do if I’m up for it. If my benchpress/pullups wear me out, and I don’t want to do anything else, I don’t. If I’m feeling good, I’ll do it.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]muppet101 wrote:
Okay. There’s way too much to quote and reply to.
I was doing 5x5 last year after I lost all that weight but I had the nagging feeling that I’m ignoring way too much by concentrating on just the Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press and Barbell Rows.
And shortly after that, college put me off my schedule way too bad and I stopped.
And ouch at that comment about knowing females who’ve had better numbers than me, training for a few months.
So my lifts are weak and I need to work on them more, working a little less on the isolation work, I gather from all the posts on here?[/quote]
A couple things:
Bottom line is, your level of commitment to attaining the physique you’re after is what will determine your results. You have to want it, and you have to put in the time to earn it.[/quote]
Ah, that’s nice to hear.
I’m probably moving to a new city next week, but I’m not going to let that affect my workout. First thing-find a new gym.
And wow, you do just the big lifts and you look like that?
NO isolation whatsoever? That sets a few things straight in my head.[/quote]
I do ALMOST no isolation work. Mondays and Thursdays I usually do a little (maybe 10 minutes of it). Some curls and pressdowns or something like that, with a lightweight (I almost never curl heavier than 25lb dumbbells). The isolation comes at the end of the workout, and it’s just some easy work for a little extra volume in the weight session. It’s truly not necessary, just something I’ll do if I’m up for it. If my benchpress/pullups wear me out, and I don’t want to do anything else, I don’t. If I’m feeling good, I’ll do it. [/quote]
Any advice about the rep-range/sets I should be hitting?
I think heavy work, in the 3-5 rep range, should always be included. I think the most important aspect to athleticism, bodybuilding, powerlifting, whatever, is a solid strength base. If given the choice, I’d always prefer more sets with lower reps than the opposite. I incorporate both, but I don’t think there’s any substitute for heavy lifting.
Besides 5/3/1, I really liked CT’s HP mass when I did that. It essentially revolved around that rep range for most lifts, and focused on compound movements. I think you can get big AND strong, especially as a beginner, in this range.
I think that new lifters have a tendency (and I did the same thing years ago) to pay too much attention to little things. Like rear delts, the different bicep and tricep heads, calves, forearms, that sort of thing. Looking back, that’s a pretty terrible approach. Don’t be the little guy in the gym who spends his time doing wrist curls and rear delt flyes. Push yourself on the big lifts, because they work EVERYTHING. If something’s lagging after, say, 3 years, revisit the problem area.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I think heavy work, in the 3-5 rep range, should always be included. I think the most important aspect to athleticism, bodybuilding, powerlifting, whatever, is a solid strength base. If given the choice, I’d always prefer more sets with lower reps than the opposite. I incorporate both, but I don’t think there’s any substitute for heavy lifting.
Besides 5/3/1, I really liked CT’s HP mass when I did that. It essentially revolved around that rep range for most lifts, and focused on compound movements. I think you can get big AND strong, especially as a beginner, in this range.
I think that new lifters have a tendency (and I did the same thing years ago) to pay too much attention to little things. Like rear delts, the different bicep and tricep heads, calves, forearms, that sort of thing. Looking back, that’s a pretty terrible approach. Don’t be the little guy in the gym who spends his time doing wrist curls and rear delt flyes. Push yourself on the big lifts, because they work EVERYTHING. If something’s lagging after, say, 3 years, revisit the problem area.[/quote]
I shall take your advice and concentrate on the big lifts more.
Yesterday was legs day so I mainly did just squats and leg presses followed be a little calf work.
I normally stay out of the beginners section (because I come off as an asshole like I’m about to do):
First and foremost, your issue isn’t just the weights you do or don’t lift, the foods you eat; no the issue is simply yourself, your mind, your work ethic and your dedication. If you want to stop looking like shit then be committed to it. Stop missing training sessions, stop going off and on because you’re not magically transformed overnight. You’re in college, you have more time now than you ever will again. Let me say that again - you have more time now to dedicate to yourself then you ever will again. “I have school to study for”, “I have a part time job”, “I want a social life”. Seriously? There are plenty of older and wiser people here that have managed to hit the gym consistently 3-4 times a week for years on end, when they have full-time jobs, families, and all the various bullshit that you have to deal with as an adult.
Now, the things you need to do:
Start training every week 3-4x per week. It doesn’t matter if it’s finals week and you somehow think that cramming 16 hours straight will make you do better on the test (chances are it won’t and the stress relief you get from training might - that doesn’t mean don’t study).
Start eating higher quality foods - more protein/quality fats and carbs when you need them such as around your training.
Start having some patience. It’s not going to happen over night. It’s not going to happen in a few weeks. But the slight progresses you make will add up and in time you’ll have something you can be proud of.
Just start. Don’t stop.
Can you go back in time 10 years and tell my 18 year old self that?