T Nation

Trying to get Grande

A few questions for Bill and anyone else who is knowledgeable on the subject.
As captain of my football team in Pennsylvania, somehow it’s become my responsibility to find out as much as possible about Mag 10. From everything I’ve read and heard, Mag 10 is very effective (while taking it) at helping one to reach their athletic goals (whether it be improved strength, mass, or fat loss). A number of guys on my team (maybe 15-20 including myself) are interested in trying a few cycles of Mag 10 over the off season to help us gain weight and strength so we can destroy our competition next year. Before we take the plunge, however, there were a few questions we had. I’m hoping that Bill or someone else knowledgeable may be able to help answer these. (If these have been addressed before on the forum cut me some slack because for some reason the search engine doesn’t work from my computer…). Anyway, here’s the questions we came up with (being young, verile men, these issues are very important to us).

  1. Libido after coming off Mag 10? Obviously while on it, libido would be expected to increase greatly due to the increased T. What happens when you come off. I’ve heard some horror stories about guys coming off the juice and not being able to get it up. Needless to say, no drug is worth these side effects.
  2. Hair loss? I know that the ingredients in Mag 10 are not supposed to convert into agents that would contribute to hair loss. However, aren’t high levels of androgens responsible for hair loss, including accentuating the effects of male pattern baldness. Would somehow who is predisposed to hair loss or is already losing some hair stay away from Mag 10 and androgen use in general? Is there any OTC drugs to be taken concurrently with Mag 10 to prevent hair loss?
  3. Immune system health? I am assuming that androgen use decreases endocrine function and immune system health. Is there anything to be taken concurrently to keep the endocrine system strong so we don’t all get sick and lose all our gains.
  4. Maintaining Gains? It seems like the Mag 10 plan for success is well thought out, but I still have to ask…After 4 weeks ( when we’ve done the Mag 10 for 2 weeks, followed by 2 weeks of Tribex and M) how much of the gains can we expect to keep, and what would be the best way to keep them. We were thinking of doing the following: 2 weeks Mag 10, 2 weeks Tribex+M, repeating that, and then taking creatine for 6-8 weeks to cement our gains. Is this a feasible plan do you think? One thing I’m concerned about, however, would be the decreased aggression while not on Mag 10. If we use it in the off-season, and grow accustomed to its effects, then when we need that aggression during the season it may be harder to come by. (But knowing the animals on this team, that shouldn’t be a problem).
  5. Will Mag 10 still be available for purchase in June. Many of us were going to use it during the summer, but I’ve heard that the government is trying to ban androgens and I wasn’t sure when this will take effect. We’ve actually decided to write to our representatives to try to keep those fu*kers from taken away even more of our civil liberties.
  6. Last question…Should 19-22 year olds be using Mag 10, seeing as our hormonal environment is still probably not fully developed in many ways.

So basically, we need to know that we are old enough to use Mag 10, will be able to buy it this summer, won’t lose our hair, our ability to get a hard on, won’t get pneumonia, and will be able to keep the majority of our hard earned muscle.
I’m counting on you guys to help me out here…thanks so much for any replies.

  1. If using Tribex + M post-cycle, or Tribex + Vitex e.g. the Solaray brand 400 mg/day, especially with two-week cycles (which also allow much briefer “off” times) there should be no libido problems post-cycle.

Incidentally, free testosterone does not increase while on MAG-10. The active androgens are androst-1-ene and 4-AD. Testosterone simply remains normal.

  1. The 4-AD component doesn’t seem to have any adverse effect on hair (to my surprise) but I’d have to figure it would be too much luck for androst-1-ene to have that same behavior, and I figure it’s best to assume effect on hair is comparable to Primobolan cycles. MAG-10 has been out for a year or so,
    and seems to have a good track record in terms of hair. But I would not claim zero effect on individuals prone to MPB in the first place, but rather a mild effect.

It would be pure speculation as to what
protocols might improve whatever effect there
might be with MAG-10, given lack of complaints
in the first place, but any compound that is of benefit when not taking androgens, should be of benefit when taking MAG-10.

  1. I don’t think it’s correct to give a generalization that androgens weaken the immune system. The opposite is often true. Many users are “never sick” when using androgens, or even go on androgens when sick to help get over it. There are others who feel they are more likely to come down with colds while on-cycle, though. So it is not cut and dried. Basically I don’t think it’s an important change one way or the other in cases of normal health, and it can be in either direction, or no change.

  2. Your plan sounds fine. How much gains
    will be retained depends on a lot of things but there’s no reason retention shouldn’t be very good.

  3. I can’t predict whether MAG-10 will still be available in June. It is possible not, given current proposed legislation.

  4. At that age the reason that bothers me
    about using MAG-10 or other androgens is
    that often good training methods and habits
    have not yet been developed, and androgen use can often reward even bad practices, or even create a situation where someone feels they can make no progress except when using androgens. Whereas if someone has more training experience, they know they can do well simply from work and diligence, and therefore can do well in their off weeks and do not “need” to be using androgens a high proportion of the time to stay in shape – even being “on” only 1/3 of the time will give them terrific results. However, there are
    certainly young men in this age range who are experienced and diligent and so one can’t generalize too much. And also, the competing
    athlete can be in a different situation,
    where an improvement of say 10-15 lb of muscle
    (to name a modest figure) is not just a matter of feeling better about how one looks, feels, and performs, or impressing others more favorable, but actually perhaps having a major effect on one’s future; and furthermore there will be much more of a tendency towards diligence in training anyhow, so the above concerns I gave are less relevant.

Bill, thanks so much for the reply. It must be a pain in the butt to answer questions like these all the time, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to reply. I would agree with your assertion that young lifters often may come to believe that they can only make gains while on supplements (be it androgens or creatine or other). Personally, I will be spending the next 5 months training without any supplements (except protein and vitamins) to see what types of gains I can make on “my own”. Then this summer it’s ballz out training using Biotest’s finest (Mag 10, Tribex, M), followed by more of Biotests finest (Powerdrive). Oh yeah, one more quick question (if you read this)…It is my understanding that taking the Tribex and M after Mag 10 serves to help facilitate endocrine recovery. But if I were working over a longer timeline, say 14 weeks, instead of 8, might it be more beneficial to take mag 10 for 2 weeks, take tribex+M for 2 weeks, take 2 weeks off, and then repeat. The intensity in the gym and the volume would obviously match up with the supplements taken at the time…(i.e. volume would work from high to low over the course of 6 weeks, and then repeat in a wavelike manner.) Thanks for all your help.
-Still Trying to Get Grande

Thank you Bill for all your help. I appreciate the time you took to reply to my post, and once again you’ve demonstrated great insight. Thanks.