T Nation

Trying to Find the Sweet Spot

How many guys have been on HRT and had those times of about a week or so where everything is perfect. You are feeling awesome, great mood, libido, morning wood, etc? Then all the sudden things turn for the worse again, or not quite as good as you was feeling.

I have experianced this several times in the last 2 years since starting HRT. The problem is, I don’t know if I have hit a sweet spot in my HRT, or things are just working right at that time, as they would for a normal healthy person. I choose to believe I have hit a sweet spot.

An example of the last time I did, I was lowering my EOD dose of Test Cyp so I would be in the TT range of 700’s just to keep the Endo I was seeing at the time happy. I was feeling really good for a week or two. At that time I was taking Test Cyp and HCG, no AI. My TT mid 700’s and E2 was around 36. I felt great all the way around for about 2 weeks. Some would say that TT is a little low and E2 is a little high. The problem is I have no base line to go off of from when I was naturaly healthy.

Since then I quit the Endo and started seeing a new Anti Aging Doc. I bumped my TT back up to the high 900’s and my E2 was up to 53. I was feeling like shit, very moody, wanting to cry, etc. The new Doc wrote me for Arimdex which I started right away, and have been on it for about a month now. I feel a hell of a lot better now mood wise, but my libido is bad, erection quality, morning wood etc. is poor. I don’t know if it is to early to concern my self, but one can’t help to worry a little with the known possible side effects of a over responder. I guess I will wait and see in a month where my E2 is now. If it is to low I will either try lowering my dose of Armidex, or drop it and go back to a TT range of 700’s which seems to keep my E2 in the mid 30’s and see if I experiance the same good effects again.

It is really difficult sometimes trying to figure everything out. What should I take, do I need something else, how much, what is a good range for me, am I feeling good because of the meds or something else, how should I feel for my age, Is my Hep C causing problems, etc. etc. etc. I’m sure you guys know what I am talking about.

Then the thoughts come up that maybe I am expecting to much for my age (52). That I need to except the fact that I may never feel, or be anything like I used to be other then a few times out of the year. I mean I am never going to feel like I did when I was 16, or in my 20’s. Hell I even felt great most of the time until I hit the mid 40’s.

I would really like to see a poll or something on here where we can get honest answers from others that are in different age groups, like in the 40’s, then 50’s 60’s etc. and how they feel. Maybe a questionare or something where we can compare how we should be feeling at our age on HRT when things are working well.

I would also like to see something from healthy guys (not on HRT or other) in the same age groups for comparison to us on HRT. Who wants to do this? lol
Well thats enough of my scattered thoughts. Let me know what you guys think!

I have had similar issues. But then I had highs and lows when I was young too.

Your episode where you reduced T: My TRT story was that my TT was 900-1000 and E2=37. That is similar to where you were at. I felt like crap. 1mg anastrozole per week took me to E2=28 and I felt reborn. Then increased dose to 1mg x (28/220 and felt better and also lost fat from “problem areas”. So your event makes sense.

You are not feeling well. Ask for an interim E2 lab, then you can fine tune the dose. But if you have E2 so low that the lab report only shows that it is below the reporting floor, that is not useful at all. Suggest that you experiment with the dose until you feel reasonably good, then the lab should product a number that you can use to calculate a new dose. But if E2 is high, that will be reported on a lab and a dose calculation can be done.

Suggest that when you do the E2 lab, also check ALT, AST to see if those are changing. And maybe AM cortisol.

You can feel good on higher T levels and managed E2. No need to go for lower T levels.

It can be hard to find a balance, for some its difficult.

And we know that TRT + thyroid or adrenal problems can make one feel off. But that is outside the context here and needs to be part of your main thread. Too often, T tunnel vision overlooks other issues.

Your hep-C may be affecting E2 clearance from your blood. This can then affect what your AI dose needs to be. And perhaps your SHBG will be affected too, affecting FT levels. You need to keep E2 in check to avoid SHBG increases.

Yes I believe you are right about going for the higher ranges of T. Just like I talked about in my post I actually feel good this morning. Feel that animal instinct like I want to jump the first girl I see. Morning wood that lasted for more then 5 seconds, etc. This is the exact thing that messes with my thinking and trying to figure out what is going on. I know I am being inpatient and will give the AI longer and check E2.

I probaly had times when I was younger that I went through the same things, but didn’t bother me, or didn’t really notice it then. I do remeber a time when I was in my 30’s my wife asked me if something was wrong because I hadn’t tried to jump her bones for almost a month. I didn’t realize it had been that long.

I think a lot of my problem is that I am aware of what is going on now, and I am paying to much attention to things on a daily basis. Over thinking it to much, that is my OCD at work!
Thanks for the input.

Hey Cobra, I could have written your post almost word for word. I’m 57, have been or TRT for 4 months and am all over the map too with how I’m feeling. One day (one half, one quarter day . . .) I’m feeling like a lion that could take on the world and wear out all the girls around me, and the next day I’m feeling like a neutered lamb. It’s a roller coaster ride that some days I’d just like to get off, even back to where I was, which wasn’t great, at least there was no big surprises.

There are so many variables in TRT, and not very many capable docs around, that the only way really to make it through the maze is to become super self educated, like Ksman, and than start experimenting on yourself. It’s a helluva lot more complicated than “a test run of Androgel”.

So you’re not alone in your frustration, not by a long shot. A word of advice, be very careful with the Adex, it’s powerful stuff, especially for an over-responder, like me. I was at 53 for my E, took 1/8 mg daily (compounded) and went too low after 21 days, I’m in day 6 of very sore joints, that stuff can fool you. Don’t wait to test, do it as soon as you can!

[quote]Ontarioguy wrote:
Hey Cobra, I could have written your post almost word for word. I’m 57, have been or TRT for 4 months and am all over the map too with how I’m feeling. One day (one half, one quarter day . . .) I’m feeling like a lion that could take on the world and wear out all the girls around me, and the next day I’m feeling like a neutered lamb. It’s a roller coaster ride that some days I’d just like to get off, even back to where I was, which wasn’t great, at least there was no big surprises.

There are so many variables in TRT, and not very many capable docs around, that the only way really to make it through the maze is to become super self educated, like Ksman, and than start experimenting on yourself. It’s a helluva lot more complicated than “a test run of Androgel”.

So you’re not alone in your frustration, not by a long shot. A word of advice, be very careful with the Adex, it’s powerful stuff, especially for an over-responder, like me. I was at 53 for my E, took 1/8 mg daily (compounded) and went too low after 21 days, I’m in day 6 of very sore joints, that stuff can fool you. Don’t wait to test, do it as soon as you can![/quote]
I have been on .25 of Armidex EOD for about 3 weeks now. I don’t have any sore joints or anything like that. My libido and morning wood is not where I think it should be. And yeah I am paying close attention to things so I don’t bottom myself out if I happen to over respond to Armidex.
Like I said in my post maybe I am expecting to much for my age? I don’t know. I would still like to get some data on guys in different age groups. I think it would be useful to all of us so we have a idea where we should be.
Four months isn’t that long to be on TRT. It takes a while to get things right. Make sure you don’t make a lot of changes at once. That way you will know what is or is not working for you.
Good luck!