T Nation

Trying Something New for Mass

So I’ve been lifting for a little over a year now and got 2 weeks left of my current program and want to try something different.
My goals are obviously to increase strength and muscle mass.

Was thinking about Westside for Skinny Bastards since I’ve heard it get thrown around alot. Is this program suitable for anyone such as beginners through to intermediate?

Any other programs out there that people have gotten good results from?

Yeah it is good. Not only will you gain, but you will start to understand why they construct the program as they do, understand more principles.
Dont be afraid to do the 3 day WS4SB rather than the 4 day variant, sometimes it gets a bit too much if you arent eating properly.

You need to decide what your goals are first. If it is bodybuilding, then Westside would not be the program to use. If maximal strength gains are what you are looking for, then it would be a good program for you.

Regardless of what some may say, you can’t focus on both getting as strong as you can and big as you can at the same time; both strength and size will suffer if you do. The best mass building program will compromise strength to some degree and the best strength building program will compromise size.

So choose!

What has your past training been like? If you have been doing traditional bodybuilding splits, something like Rippetoe’s or a 5x5 variant would probably result in crazy growth and a lot of strength gains to boot.

I like EDT, but this is only my second week so I can’t speak to results.

I took some of DeFranco’s principles and put them into my normal BB split, it might work for you, it might not. So far I have noticed a big difference strength/size wise.

Keep in mind chest and shoulders are a weakpoint for me, so I want to put more emphasis with lots of benching. You might want to add in more arm work, even though its enough for me right now.

Monday:

BB Bench (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Incline DB (4 sets, 8-10 reps)
Decline BB (3 sets, 8-10 reps)

BB Rows (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Delt flies (2 sets, 10 reps)
Cable Rows (3 sets, 8 reps)
DB Shrugs

Wednesday:

Squats (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Leg press (4 sets, 10 reps)
Romanian Deadlift (3 sets x 8 reps)
Leg Curls (3 sets x 5-6 reps)
Wrist Roller

Thursday:

Standing calf-raises
Seated Calf raises
Donkey calf-raise machine

Friday:

Bench press (3 sets of Max reps w/ 135, 185, 225, etc)
Chinups (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Shoulder Press (3 sets, 10 reps)

Skullcrushers
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
You need to decide what your goals are first. If it is bodybuilding, then Westside would not be the program to use. If maximal strength gains are what you are looking for, then it would be a good program for you.

Regardless of what some may say, you can’t focus on both getting as strong as you can and big as you can at the same time; both strength and size will suffer if you do. The best mass building program will compromise strength to some degree and the best strength building program will compromise size.

So choose!
[/quote]

Yes I do understand this. But if your weak and focus on mass, there is no point really right? I wouldn’t consider myself weak but average. I was weak as shit when I started though.

Here are my best lifts - I even converted for you back to front yanks

Deads: 365lbs 3reps
Squat: 300lbs 1rm
Bench: 220lbs 1rm

Is this enough strength to get good results from a mass building program? I would rather mass for now because I feel so damn skinny, but am not looking for short term results, so if its necessary to work on strength, I will.

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
What has your past training been like? If you have been doing traditional bodybuilding splits, something like Rippetoe’s or a 5x5 variant would probably result in crazy growth and a lot of strength gains to boot.

I like EDT, but this is only my second week so I can’t speak to results.[/quote]

Well I brought Beradi’s Scrawny to Brawny book which consist of 4, 4 week phases which are a bit of wave loading, 5x5 and currently supersetting, which is fucking brutal. Thank god its almost over.

I have heard of EDT but no idea what it is, I will look into it.

[quote]ab_power wrote:

I took some of DeFranco’s principles and put them into my normal BB split, it might work for you, it might not. So far I have noticed a big difference strength/size wise.

Keep in mind chest and shoulders are a weakpoint for me, so I want to put more emphasis with lots of benching. You might want to add in more arm work, even though its enough for me right now.

Monday:

BB Bench (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Incline DB (4 sets, 8-10 reps)
Decline BB (3 sets, 8-10 reps)

BB Rows (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Delt flies (2 sets, 10 reps)
Cable Rows (3 sets, 8 reps)
DB Shrugs

Wednesday:

Squats (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Leg press (4 sets, 10 reps)
Romanian Deadlift (3 sets x 8 reps)
Leg Curls (3 sets x 5-6 reps)
Wrist Roller

Thursday:

Standing calf-raises
Seated Calf raises
Donkey calf-raise machine

Friday:

Bench press (3 sets of Max reps w/ 135, 185, 225, etc)
Chinups (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Shoulder Press (3 sets, 10 reps)

Skullcrushers
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

[/quote]

Never seen a whole day dedicated to calves alone before. Have you noticed much results from doing this? My calves are ok, but I think I’m pretty lucky and they have grown decently without alot of direct work but I’d love a nice set of calves above all else.

Don’t think I know enough to be designing my own programs though.

If you don’t feel confident designing your own program give the Beast Building series by Christian Thibaudeau a read.



To briefly sum up it aims at building the CNS and strength in the first two parts, then focus switches to hypertrophy/aesthetics for the third part.

CT says that you can follow the plan of all three articles or just take the plan off one of them and use it by itself.
But I would probably follow it how it’s set out.

[quote]hardgnr wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
You need to decide what your goals are first. If it is bodybuilding, then Westside would not be the program to use. If maximal strength gains are what you are looking for, then it would be a good program for you.

Regardless of what some may say, you can’t focus on both getting as strong as you can and big as you can at the same time; both strength and size will suffer if you do. The best mass building program will compromise strength to some degree and the best strength building program will compromise size.

So choose!

Yes I do understand this. But if your weak and focus on mass, there is no point really right? I wouldn’t consider myself weak but average. I was weak as shit when I started though.

Here are my best lifts - I even converted for you back to front yanks

Deads: 365lbs 3reps
Squat: 300lbs 1rm
Bench: 220lbs 1rm

Is this enough strength to get good results from a mass building program? I would rather mass for now because I feel so damn skinny, but am not looking for short term results, so if its necessary to work on strength, I will.

[/quote]

My meaning was that you will not get maximum strength results from a mass program, but you will get stronger. I also think that your stats are decent enough to start a mass program.

So if your ultimate goal is to be big, I would start a more bodybuilding type program. You will get stronger. It will just be a slower strength progression than in the past or if you were on a strict strength program like Westside.

[quote]hardgnr wrote:
ab_power wrote:

I took some of DeFranco’s principles and put them into my normal BB split, it might work for you, it might not. So far I have noticed a big difference strength/size wise.

Keep in mind chest and shoulders are a weakpoint for me, so I want to put more emphasis with lots of benching. You might want to add in more arm work, even though its enough for me right now.

Monday:

BB Bench (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Incline DB (4 sets, 8-10 reps)
Decline BB (3 sets, 8-10 reps)

BB Rows (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Delt flies (2 sets, 10 reps)
Cable Rows (3 sets, 8 reps)
DB Shrugs

Wednesday:

Squats (work up to set of max 5 reps)
Leg press (4 sets, 10 reps)
Romanian Deadlift (3 sets x 8 reps)
Leg Curls (3 sets x 5-6 reps)
Wrist Roller

Thursday:

Standing calf-raises
Seated Calf raises
Donkey calf-raise machine

Friday:

Bench press (3 sets of Max reps w/ 135, 185, 225, etc)
Chinups (4 sets, 10 reps)
DB Shoulder Press (3 sets, 10 reps)

Skullcrushers
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

Never seen a whole day dedicated to calves alone before. Have you noticed much results from doing this? My calves are ok, but I think I’m pretty lucky and they have grown decently without alot of direct work but I’d love a nice set of calves above all else.

Don’t think I know enough to be designing my own programs though.
[/quote]

I was dealt a pair of low-insertion/long-muscle calves. So I decided to take advantage of it. The day for calves could be put on a day with another muscle group, but I found that I couldn’t be as intense. They are at 16" right now @ 180lbs, 5’9".