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Trying HCG Again - Ideal Dose Adjustment?

My last bloodwork on 150mg/week came back at a staggering 1450 with about 35 FT and 30 E2. I’m having it retested because that doesn’t seem right. My hct and such are fine too.

Anyways my girlfriend and I have decided to give HCG another shot to preserve fertility. I’m thinking of dropping to 70mg/week and adding 250IU HCG EOD. I’m basing this on trying to cut my TT in half, and Nelson Vergel’s studies on HCG. From those I figure 250IU EOD should bring my ITT back to where it was, about 500. Hoping to land around 1000 TT.

Thoughts on this? I’d rather go too high than end up in a pit of despair from dropping my dose too much too fast (been there).

I’d go with 100mg testosterone.

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I know plenty of guys hitting your levels with a 150 mg a week. I definitely would not suggest dropping it down as low as 70. Your numbers are not staggering by any stretch of the imagination. The question is, how do you feel? Are you going to adjust your protocol simply based on numbers without taking that into account? You can drop down into the 100-120 range but 70 would be a mistake. HCG dosing should be fine.

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As much as I know you I think this would be too high for you. At least for me using HCG is a balance with test levels high enough. HCG on its own drives my energy down. Ive tried this HCG dose and for me it was high even when I had 1450 total t

I would suggest you start with a dose of 100-150ui eod or 70-100 ui daily. And if you are going to drop down t drop it down with very small. You can always increase HCG later. Changes there take effect very quickly within a week it is not long wait like changing t dosing.

How do you feel on that t levels? Energy, mood, libido?

70iu of hcg daily is a terrible idea. I can send you papers demonstrating why, but science = bad.

Ok, bad for what?

It works for me. It makes my balls big like pre trt, my load size like pre trt. As soon as I stop it all this is gone. So 70 ui has this effect for me(I take now 70-75)

I plan to make by the way seamen analysis Im interested in the results

When you boil water, you bring it to at least 100 degrees. It can be 100 or more. It’s the minimum effective level.

HCG has a minimum effective dose to maintain fertility. If you’re going to do something, use the recommend dosing protocols or you may not get the desired outcome.

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What were his findings?

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Can I just point something out real quick?
It’s ‘iu’- international unit. I get an eye twitch every time I see it in your comments.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

What does ITT represent in the graph?

Intratesticular testosterone

100 it is to start, as I want to get my TT down a bit. I’ve noticed I’m starting to get easily agitated, which always happens to me when it’s too high.

Basically that 250IU EOD is enough to maintain original ITT levels

He said he runs from science. Perhaps inverting the letters makes it more palatable?

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Why is ITT an important consideration?

Never mind:

Intratesticular testosterone (IT-T) is essential for spermatogenesis. In men with infertility secondary to hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, injections of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), which mimics the activity of LH, stimulates the testicular biosynthesis of testosterone .May 19, 2010”

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Sorry, I could have provided additional info. My bad.

I’m always interested in hCG and how it functions as an analogue to LH. I’ve tried it at least 6 times throughout my 6 years on TRT and it always causes me more issues than benefit. I’ve piloted hcg doses from 70 iu’s every day, 150 ius/250ius EOD to 500 ius twice per week. As you mentioned, the 70iu’s per day seemed nearly pointless and didnt seem to move the needle in the desired direction. Anything higher and side effects became unpleasant: hypertension/high blood pressure, water retention, poor mood and difficulty sleeping are the primary side effects.

I dislike the testicular atrophy and decreased volume that seems to come with TRT and no hcg or LH/FSH analogue or stimulator, which is why I dabble with hcg from time to time. That’s why I’ve mentioned kisspeptin-10 recently as a possible substitute, which has it’s own drawbacks.

I’m contemplating attempting to again run low dose hCG alongside kisspeptin-10 as an experiment for myself.

I don’t consider those values excessively high, and 1450 TT is a reasonable response to 150mg/week. Is that a once weekly dose or do you divide it?

I don’t think you’ll be happy dropping your dose down to only 70mg/week, even in a EOD protocol. That seems to be a pretty drastic drop in dosage, especially your current Free T is pretty much at a perfect level. Don’t worry about E2.

Regarding HCG, 250 IU EOD is a good starting dose for fertility, which amounts to 875 IU per week. There’s some good published research that shows the ideal dose is closer to 1000 IU per week to normalize ITT levels. See the graph below.

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Does it matter how it’s split up, though? Like is 200IU’s every day basically the same as a little under 500 3x a week? Or would one be better than the other fertility wise?

Why do you suppose the lower ITT dose was the one with a higher daily hcg dose? Are those two different subjects/men, so there could be variability in results?