T Nation

Trump: The Third Year


#963

Just saying how they didn’t and will never embrace all of your thinking. But you have changed some of their thinking, when they saw the benefit to themselves.
And I bet you have adopted some of theirs, as you got older, had kids.

Negotiations take time. People have to feel they are getting something.

Let’s take Kim. He has nukes to protect his already established prosperity and kingship. So appealing strictly to a ‘more affluent N Korea’ means very little. He already holds life and death of his populace, is too fat, and uses a toilet of gold.

Shapiro is smart and correct that there needs to be pre-negotiations. But he is relatively young and unlearned on 2 people negotiating. He and Ann Coulter are talking heads, not ministers of state, generals tasked with existential safety, or even the local salesman trying to gain business through win/win negotiation.

Now if we want to bomb them out of existence, then we can count the cost and just dictate to him. And Syria, and Iran, then China and Russia.


#964

Two people? A clueless real estate developer who was living (and still lives) in a bubble and a ruthless psychopath who was the second in line for the throne and consequently killed off a large number of his relatives, not to mention thousands of North Koreans.

Do you really think you can trick a psychopath with two bit tricks from three decades ago “I’m leaving the meeting for real, I’ve already ordered a taxi”?


#965

I suppose the US has appointed its negotiator by the circuitous route of election, and N Korea, its by brutality. But what peaceful talks of any sort precede these couple of meetings?

First Russia as protector, then China as an enabler, ending with one of the largest cities in the world being mortar range from harm. The world can’t change these historical developments. Why grouse over any attempt to normalize, when none has been made in 65 years?


#966

Ah gotcha. Agreed.

Hasn’t Trump’s thing been that negotiations have been going on this whole time?

I think the criticism is mostly geared toward it being another empty Trump promise. And while he had been claiming tons of progress was being made, we still see nothing from it.

My personal qualms with NK these days is that negotiating is happening at all. I can’t even begin to imagine what possible benefit the US could see from any of these talks.

It’s not like it would be a good thing to integrate with their brainwashed borderline autistic population. Nor do we need anything they have to offer. Nor could we scale back in the area just at their word (cuz, ya know, fuckin whackadoodles).


#967

Incorrect. Madeline Albright was in North Korea on a “historic visit” almost two decades ago.

image

Yes, that’s the main problem outlined by many NK watchers - the population is so brainwashed that you simply cannot walk back all that propaganda.


#968

As much as I loathe trump I’m not really going to blame for failing at this. Most previous presidents have also. What I will blame trump for is being naive and thinking that having a bromance with the guy will make a difference. The only thing kim understands is power. Taking back any sanctions without getting something verifiable for it was a huge mistake. Kim will set several more meetings with trump but will do nothing more than kick the can down the road and run out the clock till we get another president all while building his nuclear arsenal.


#969

Why don’t we just build a wall around North Korea with a nuclear proof roof?

Could be expensive though. I’m sure Mexico will build it for us.


#970

Well at the end of '17, NoKo was firing missiles over Japan and threatening Guam, so there’s that.

@loppar
Yes the population is brainwashed and ruined, but so was(is) E Germany and to lesser degrees any other place with dictators - Iraq, Cuba, former Warsaw Pact, SE Asia.
Do we integrate them into humanity or let their regimes finish killing all of them and threatening the rest of the world


#971

"The pair spent hours together on Monday and appeared to get on well, exchanging smiles and warm handshakes. However, Kim said, “I don’t think the three hours of discussion we had were enough to break the silence of 50 years.”

Missles and food on the agenda…damn

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/10/24/albright.north.korea.o1/


#972

If Obama is President? Absolutely not. That motherfucker shouldn’t talk to those people or bow to them. What a disgrace to America! Oh Trump? That’s cool.


#973

I will throw this out and then need to get to it before my 5’7" picks up a 2x4.

China has had zero interest in the unification of Korea for decades. It is an expenditure of trillions of dollars for the US to police the Pacific rim and NE Asia.
Couple a huge military (with nukes) with number 8-10 largest economy and also a huge military. An animosity running 1000 years and geographically hooked onto China.

But in order to maintain its Asian hegemony and continuing plans for world ‘domination’, it has had to at least act like it and the US are copacetic. Thus China’s support is either lessening or is becoming even more covert. Kim probably has to do something towards normalization. And is trying to get all he can, while he can.

Someone (on TN?) sparked my interest in the several 1000s year Chinese mindset of being the ‘benevolent’ center of the earth. Very interesting reading.


#974

Don’t forget, North Korea is a very peculiar case. I’d venture to say that 90% of the population living in the then Eastern Bloc knew that communism was bullshit. Only those at the bottom of the social ladder harbored some positive feelings because of the supposedly “free stuff” like state funded vacations for factory workers.

North Korea on the other hand seems to be filled with True Believers.

Silence of 50 years he says? Did Trump take his word on that as well?

Mr Kim has shown surprising willingness to reciprocate Mr Clinton’s moves to seek an accommodation between two countries that seemed close to war six years ago. The leader of the formerly closed country has reached out to other countries too, most notably South Korea.


#975

@loppar
That 50 years statement was from his father in the article, sorry l didn’t clarify


#976

What was Trump before he became a “minister of state”?


#977

It occurred to me that China wouldn’t have much of a platform for hegemony status other than aggression were it not for NK acting like the regions asshole, so they (China) might not have any great interest in promoting or encouraging a peaceful or prosperous NK.


#978

2 hours…

A TWO HOUR tirade at CPAC?

What in the WORLD did Trump have to say for TWO HOURS?

There really must be some committed fans at that Convention…


#980

I would encourage everyone to read “Escaping North Korea”, by Mike Kim. Gives a unique insight into the actual thinking of refugees. The guy worked smuggling refugees out of NK for 4 years. The amount of atrocities KJU and his family have been directly responsible for is staggering. Have we gone insane? Do we want our President claiming to have a “special relationship” with a person like this? Anything we give them, whether it results in less nuclearization (aka posturing from a country that couldn’t withstand one single bombing run, much less a nuke), will go directly to Kim and the few people he shares his wealth with. The speck of light that is Pyongyang in the middle of a dark country that we see from satellites at night will never grow, and people will continue to starve to death as our fat leaders hug each other and smile warmly. Give me a fucking break.


#981

I with you 100% but unfortunately most of the people who support him seem to be under some kind trance or something and just blindly support him no matter what.


#982

I can’t understand supporting the guy, but given people’s visceral reaction to disagreeing with him, I can understand his supporters’ defensiveness. I think you can support Trump, and support his policies and cheer for his successes and still be appalled at this debacle.


#983

Maybe his buddy Kenye West might get the nod next