T Nation

Trump: The Second Year


Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the Saudis have killed such a prominent US resident, and been caught immediately with their pants down this far before.

And I think we all know that allowing shady things to happen as long as they stay relatively underwraps is a less destructive policy than publicly giving MBS carte blanche to do as he pleases.


Like their role in 9/11?


That’s exactly my critique of the outrage. We’re suddenly interested in the barbarity of barbarians because they (at lest a prince and his assassins) brutalized and murdered someone the press won’t ignore. Read Trump’s reasons why we might want to overlook it. These are the same reasons every President has told themselves as they continued cozying up to our Saudi buddies. Our butchers. They got a little too trigger happy this time for our liking. Wrong person. We need to get them back in line, I guess. So we can all act oblivious again…

I and others have been cranky on the Saudis here for a while because they aren’t and shouldn’t be our friends despite whatever advantages it may or may not bring. .


IMO they need to get slapped and reminded who the alpha is in their relationship with us. This incident would have been the perfect time to check them… Even if those checks were constructed with the help of MBS to not hurt too bad. The optics of a strong, ethical America is very important… And Trump just shat the bed on that.

Pretty much every country/group in the middle East is awful, including allies like Israel and Saudi. I understand their strategic importance, but All i ask is that they don’t publicly embarrass the US. Fuck.


That is something I don’t know enough about- what level of officials were involved (pretty darn high up if I recall), who likely knew, what was done by the Saudis to clean house, what the US did in response, etc.


I’m going to ask that they not be murderous barbarians, personally. The public embarrassment I don’t care about. But if it’s to be considered, we should have felt embarrassed prior. I don’t like the idea that they’re our little butchers unless they wonder a little too far afield. Shhh, too loud, friends. Had he not been one of the media, and had it not been for a chance to take a swat at Trump, this story wouldn’t be a story. outside of of some human rights watch groups.

We should dump them. They should’ve been dumped some time ago. They’ve always been an embarrassment.


Fair enough. That’s a thread derail but I’ll leave this for you to read. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.


While US foreign policy was shamefully accommodating to the perpetrators of 9/11 (House of Saud, make not mistake about it), Trump’s brazenly transactional nature of defining Saudi-US relationship emboldened bin Salman and his Salafi buddies. Buy a lot of Trump condos or book enough rooms in Trump hotels and you can get away with anything.

Nothing illustrates this better that the hysterical reaction from MBS and his buddies to Canadian criticism of Saudi non-existent human rights record.

In pre-Trump days the Saudis wouldn’t have the balls to flout their terrorist links so brazenly.

After this shameful groveling by the White House they know they can get away with anything. And that’s the most dangerous thing to come out from the Khashoggi murder.


But that (the twitter story) happened prior to even the Khashoggi murder being committed, therefore prior to Trump’s response to the murder. Trump has merely voiced what prior Presidents have gone by. Money and alliances have led us to ignoring their brutality before Trump was ever a candidate. None of this is surprising in any way shape or form. Our murderous little buddies are just being murderous. Who would’ve thunkt’ it.

Edit: I don’t think they meant to flaunt it. I think they just happened to get recorded.


They killed a few thousand Americans in one day. But Iran is the real problem.


From breifly looking through the info, the Saudi shotcallers allowed those sympathetic and with ties to bin laden to be part of the ruling government/family. But they did not order, or carry out the attack. At worst, it sounds like the ruling members intentionally turned a blind eye to bin laden so long as he didn’t attack Saudi Arabia. Terrible that it was allowed to happen, and IMO unforgivable more wasn’t done by the USA to punish the Saudis… What actually did happen? Both internally directed and externally from the USA?

But, in kashgoggi’s case, the order to kill a US resident and media member came directly from the Saudi leader (not figurehead). And then Trump folded when it came time to be tough, or even look tough. Couldn’t even figure out a way to look tough. Disgraceful.


To be clear, for me personally, I’m not even considering 9/11. Or the deaths of any US citizens/residents. I’m not concerned he resides in the US. Or, that he was a member of the media, either. Torture and murder doesn’t suddenly begin when an individual carries those qualifications.


Agreed. I wasn’t trying to say this latest incident was more evil than previous actions. I was commenting on how completely inept Trump’s handeling of ithas been with a big ol’ cherry on top in yesterday’s letter.


We began the movement towards energy independence, stunted as it has been.

The last day that we rely on the middle east for petrol will be the best day of America’s modern history, and the worst in Saudi oil production history. And they will be much less valuable as an ally.

Just bs’ing of course.


They aren’t that dumb. That’s why they’re investing massive sums in US weaponry and lobbyists, not to mention they’re the largest single investor in Silicon Valley . They’re trying to entangle themselves in major aspects of US business and political life so that it becomes impossible to change ME policy.


Oh, I’m aware of that. If an actual hot war or act of aggression were to take place assets can be seized and frozen as they were after 9/11. That oil dependence is an actual material though, and we’re on the wrong side of the tap at this point.

Not that financial entanglement isn’t a concern, but our television networks, tech industry and banks will still exist in the event of some severance of our relationship. Oil is a major consumable.


Are you really sure about that? Trump administration sure hasn’t got a problem picking fights with all other major oil exporters except the Saudis…



As a nation, we’re coming on strong. As a person, Trump has his own interests and most likely doesn’t want to create any vendetta while in office. He’s probably afraid that some of his assets in the middle east will be seized or he’ll get shut out in the future.

Bigly weakness.



The Saudis may not be too happy about this either. :smile:


The pretense is finally over.

Kelly is out.