Trump: The First Year

[anon71262119]

@Basement_Gainz

I would just like to get to the left-leaning posters’ central premise: Trump is culpable in the actions of white supremacists because they (David Duke) expressed support for Trump. His repeated direct verbal and written denunciations of white supremacy don’t count because reasons…

While I agree with you, that was not the central premise of Antiquity’s statement, as I understand it. He can correct me if I’m wrong. In the quote below, I understood him to say that College Conservatives inviting Libertarian or Conservative speakers to campus is “an agenda of hate and prejudice” so it justifies Antifa and other far left protestors “standing up to this…and making it clear that racism and white supremacism will not be tolerated in our fair city.” What happened to debating them? If you disagree with them, don’t go to their talk. Protestors get bored when nobody pays attention. Or go and debate them. Getl them with the superiority of your ideas if you can. You don’t hit them with a steel pipe to keep the city safe. That’s quite the twist, where the violence from the left is justified as keeping people safe. The LEFT instigated it.

Antiquity is placing the alt-left protestors in the position of keepers of the peace, and protecting the fair city. That’s not the way it went down. The alt-left protestors took to the streets with sticks and crowbars and broke windows, committed assault, and set fires to protest… wait for it… the College Republicans inviting speakers they disliked. It’s the equivalent of calling a terrorist a freedom fighter I suppose.

I will not condone violence or lawlessness from either side. At all. There’s no excuse for rioting and breaking windows, or of hitting someone with a damn steel pipe. How that can be characterized as “keeping our city safe” just defies all reason. I hope he’ll tell me that I misunderstood that. EyeDentist liked his post, so… Whatever.

I have zero tolerance for violence from either side. Right or Left. To be clear, these white supremacists are absolutely despicable. I have zero sympathy for them. Zero. I dislike Nazis intensely. The Antifa and alt-leftists also preach their postmodernist and neo-Marxist ideologies, and condone violence, which they absolutely do. We have rising anti-semitism from the left. I don’t care if they are not as large a group, and I seriously doubt that when you look at the numbers of people who hold these ideologies, and the sheer damage those ideas have done to humanity over the past 100 years. Its not harmless. Not at all. You’re not a very good student of history if you think otherwise.

@Tyler23

Are you really comparing what happened in Berkeley with what happened yesterday? When an alt-right nutjob aligned his car, to ensure he was aiming directly at the anti-racist protesters, backed up, and then drove into them at high speed killing one and sending 19 others to the hospital?

Tyler, Take a steel pipe, a U shaped bike lock in your fist. Raise it above your head and bring it down as hard as you possibly can on someone’s SKULL. It’s not self-defense. The guy is just standing there in the crowd and you hit him as hard as you can in the head. He could have been killled. Thank goodness this professor was finally identified and arrested for assaulting three people with a steel pipe. How is that NOT violence?

[anon71262119]

BTW, for those of you complaining about how the GOP hasn’t spoken out about Charlotte, I don’t know what fake news you’re smokin. CNN ran an article today talking about Bipartisan Condemnation.

The best list I’ve seen so far.

John McCain, Florida, tweeted: “White supremacists aren’t patriots, they’re traitors- Americans must unite against hatred & bigotry #Charlottesville”
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Cory Gardner, Colorado, tweeted: “Mr. President - we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism." (Retweeted by Jeff Flake of Arizona)

Marco Rubio, Florida, tweeted: “Nothing patriotic about #Nazis,the #KKK or #WhiteSupremacists It’s the direct opposite of what #America seeks to be. #Charlotesville”

Chuck Grassley, Iowa, tweeted: “What ‘WhiteNatjonalist’ are doing in Charlottesville is homegrown terrorism that can’t be tolerated anymore that what Any extremist does”

James Lankford, Oklahoma, tweeted: “The supremacy of any race over another is not only immoral, it’s contradictory to our Constitution and the idea of America.”

Orrin Hatch, Utah, tweeted: “My brother didn’t give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home." He also gave interviews to the press on the subject.

Rob Portman, Ohio, tweeted: “The tragedy in Charlottesville this afternoon was domestic terrorism. We must all condemn hatred and white nationalism”

Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Kentucky, tweeted: “The hate and bigotry witnessed in #Charlottesville does not reflect American values. I wholeheartedly oppose their actions.”

Luther Strange, Alabama, tweeted: “I am deeply saddened by what I saw in Charlottesville today. The violence and despicable attacks are inexcusable.”

John Boozman, Arkansas, tweeted: “The violence & hatred in #Charlottesville is unacceptable. Bigotry has no place in our society. We solve our problems by working together.”

Dan Sullivan, Alaska, tweeted: “What’s going on in #Charlottesville is deeply troubling. We should never tolerate hatred & bigotry.”

Johnny Isakson, Georgia, tweeted: “I strongly condemn the hatred and violence in Charlottesville. This type of of vile bigotry and hate is not what our country stands for.”

David Perdue, Georgia, tweeted: “The violence we’ve witnessed today is not who we are as a country. Our thoughts go out all law enforcement working hard to keep the peace.”

Todd Young, Indiana, tweeted: “The love & compassion I see from Hoosiers daily is stronger than the fringe hatred on display in #Charlottesville. The former will prevail.”

Joni Ernst, Iowa, tweeted: “The violence in #Charlottesville that is fueled by racist hatred has no place in our society. (1/2) plus mention of terrorism”

Pat Roberts, Kansas, tweeted: “The hatred & ignorance displayed by the violent & pathetic group in #charlottsville is unacceptable. Their values are not American values.”

Bill Cassidy, Louisiana, tweeted: “We reject those that preach hate”

John N. Kennedy, Louisiana, tweeted: “Violence and hate are never the answer”

Roy Blunt, Missouri, tweeted: “The hate and violence in #Charlottesville have no place in America”

Steve Daines, Montana, tweeted: “This is bigotry. This is racism. These are views we as the American people should reject.”

Deb Fischer, Nebraska, tweeted: “The hatred, violence & racism displayed in Charlottesville, VA have no place in our society. We must show civility & respect to one another.”

Ben Sasse, Nebraska, tweeted: “These people are utterly revolting–and have no understanding of America. This creedal nation explicitly rejects “blood & soil” nationalism.”

Dean Heller, Nevada, tweeted: “Racism, hatred, and violence as a means to an end is unacceptable and shameful. There’s no room for it in this country. #Charlottesville”

Tim Scott, South Carolina, tweeted: “We must stand together to condemn racism & violence. We are the American family, and will not be divided by hate. #Charlottesville”

John Thune, South Dakota, tweeted: “The hate and bigotry occurring in #Charlottesville is disgusting and unnacceptable to the American people. America is better than this.”

Lamar Alexander, Tennessee, tweeted: “The deplorable hatred and violence in Charlottesville today defaces our most cherished values and traditions.”

Bob Corker, Tennessee, tweeted: “We stand united against the violence and hatred in #Charlottesville and pray for the victims of the attacks.”

John Cornyn, Texas, tweeted: “No place for the bigotry & hate-filled violence in #Charlottesville. These actions should be condemned in the strongest possible terms.”

Ted Cruz, Texas, called the attack “domestic terrorism.”

Pat Toomey, Pennsylvania, tweeted: “The racism, hate and violence seen in #Charlottesville are vile and unacceptable.”

Shelley Moore Capito, West Virginia, tweeted: “Hate and violence have no place in this country.”

Ron Johnson, Wisconsin, tweeted: “Our hearts break for the loss of life today in Charlottesville. There is no place for such violence.”

Thom Tillis, North Carolina, tweeted: “The hate, bigotry and violence on display in #Charlottesville is despicable and represents the complete opposite of what America stands for.”

[Basement_Gainz]

From the ADL: “WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY ANTI-SEMITIC STATEMENTS FROM BANNON.” The rest of the ADL piece merely states that Bannon’s Breitbart doesn’t like democrats, illegal immigrants, Republican establishment, sharia law, fundamentalist muslims and globalism.

They point out that Spencer and Duke loved the Bannon appointment. They took one statement about the alt right to mean he buys into white supremacy. The alt right originally was just supposed to be a platform for disposessed republicans who the establishment ignors. The racists showed up later to claim the damn thing. It’s a smear job. The guy built a click bait website, not a racist one. Swing and a Miss.

Watch the videos where ACORN agrees to help smuggle in underage Latina prostitutes and get them SSN’s and benefits. Reasonably evil no? There’s a whole playlist of videos of them helping with evil shit. It’s why they were defunded. ACORN Baltimore Prostitution Investigation Part I - YouTube

We’ve gone round and round about BLM. Their rhetoric has inspired violence (from crazy people) on multiple occasions. But the rhetoric is directly calling for murder: Protesters Chant 'What Do We Want, Dead Cops' - YouTube

The SEIU is one of the most violent political organizations in the US. Their nickname is “Purple People Beaters” for crying out loud. But union violence is excused, sometimes by law.

- YouTube

[NickViar]

[Mufasa]

As an aside.

I started a “Moral Equivalents” thread. It’s interesting to me that the greater discussion on Moral Equivalents appears on the “Trump: The First Year” Thread…

Love him of Hate in…Trump certainly directly or indirectly stimulates a lot of discussion.

[anon50325502]

You can add Schwarzenegger to the list:

[Mufasa]

Based on the “Moral Equivalency” arguments thus far…it seems like events like Charlottesville are a good time to reflect on our own biases. I certainly do.

[Basement_Gainz]

There are two arguments happening simultaneously, which is muddying the waters.

1. Who’s lunatic fringe violence is worse and more odious? The right or the left? No way we’re ever going to agree on this one. Rational people on both sides simply disown their lunatics. Of course Paul Ryan and Marco aren’t white supremacists. Nancy and Schumer aren’t Marxist street agitators.

2. What should the leadership/non-lunatics of both parties do about It? Do they tacitly support the ugliness on “their” team?

Where the confusion is coming from. Not one elected Republican has endorsed the KKK, neo Nazis or white nationalists (that I know of). They are not part of the tent.

Democratic leadership has endorsed BLM, Antifa etc…

It seems odd to blame a centrist New York billionaire who works with Jews for the beliefs and actions of hillbilly confederate flag huggers… while simultaneously ignoring direct Democrat links to violent groups.

[EyeDentist]

@anon71262119

Antiquity is placing the alt-left protestors

‘Alt left’? Well,at least I can tell my grandkids I was there when this canard was invented. An excellent piece of propagandizing.

Unfortunately, it’s going to need some work before it can grow legs and take off. For example, the ‘alt-left’ seems to be homeless at this time. On one hand, I can direct you to the “platform of the alt-right” (Breitbart), and point out its political thought-leaders–Steve Bannon (who used to directly run Breitbart, and now does so indirectly) and Steve Miller, both of whom occupy offices very close to that of the POTUS. Can you direct me to the ‘platform’ for this alt-left of which you speak? Can you point to their thought-leaders who wield levers of real power a la Bannon and Miller?

@anon71262119

I will not condone violence or lawlessness from either side.

On the other hand, you are more than happy to argue for moral equivalence between the sides, which is the crux of our disagreement.

@anon71262119

The Antifa and alt-leftists also preach their postmodernist and neo-Marxist ideologies, and condone violence, which they absolutely do.

Even assuming you’re correct (which, in the aggregate, you’re not) you are equating the political view of Antifa with the racist views of the alt-right. You would be outraged if I equated the views of the TEA Partiers (a conservative political movement) with the alt-right, but you are committing an equivalent conflation.

@anon71262119

We have rising anti-semitism from the left.

Seeing as how the Ch’ville rally was composed in large part of Nazis, I don’t think you want to bring ‘the rise of anti-Semitism’ into the discussion. It will not end well for you.

@anon71262119

Tyler, Take a steel pipe, a U shaped bike lock in your fist. Raise it above your head and bring it down as hard as you possibly can on someone’s SKULL.

Now take that deplorable act, make it premeditated, have it and other ‘battle tactics’ discussed at length for weeks prior to the event, and multiply its occurrence by many thousands. Do all that, and you too can make the Berkeley event equivalent to Ch’ville.

@anon71262119

BTW, for those of you complaining about how the GOP hasn’t spoken out about Charlotte, I don’t know what fake news you’re smokin. CNN ran an article today talking about Bipartisan Condemnation.

Better late than never, I suppose. And it’s disheartening to see how many of those tweets fail to call the alt-right out by name.

@Basement_Gainz

From the ADL: “WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY ANTI-SEMITIC STATEMENTS FROM BANNON.”

And yet, they felt the need to put out this webpage on him. I wonder why that is…Perhaps it’s because someone doesn’t have to make publicly verifiable statements of anti-Semitism to raise suspicions in that regard?

@Basement_Gainz

The alt right originally was just supposed to be a platform for disposessed republicans who the establishment ignors.

I dispute the veracity of this statement.

@Basement_Gainz

Watch the videos where ACORN agrees to help smuggle in underage Latina prostitutes and get them SSN’s and benefits.

First, you know those videos have been discredited, yes? ACORN was the target of a right-wing smear campaign. (A highly successful campaign, I would add.) Are you suggesting the agitators in Ch’ville are simply misunderstood victims of a similar campaign?

@Basement_Gainz

We’ve gone round and round about BLM. Their rhetoric has inspired violence (from crazy people) on multiple occasions.

If you can point toward a universally-accepted source of info about BLM that indicates they are a black-supremacist organization, please share it.

@Basement_Gainz

The SEIU is one of the most violent political organizations in the US.

In light of Ch’ville, that is an absurd statement.

@Basement_Gainz

There are two arguments happening simultaneously, which is muddying the waters.

Who’s lunatic fringe violence is worse and more odious? The right or the left?

With all due respect, THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT, because as is made clear by 1) the presence of Bannon and Miller in the WH; and 2) Trump’s deep reluctance to call them out, THE ALT-RIGHT IS NOT THE LUNATIC FRINGE OF THE GOP–THEY ARE A LARGE PART OF ITS BASE.

@Basement_Gainz

Where the confusion is coming from. Not one elected Republican has endorsed the KKK, neo Nazis or white nationalists (that I know of). They are not part of the tent.

I can think of one fairly important Republican who, despite his eagerness to call out Islamic terrorists (and Muslims in general), Mexican “rapists,” etc, is curiously reluctant to not call out the KKK, neo-Nazis et al.

@Basement_Gainz

Democratic leadership has endorsed BLM, Antifa

Again, you are equating BLM and Antifa with neo-Nazis and the KKK. That is false moral equivalency at an absurd level.

@Basement_Gainz

It seems odd to blame a centrist New York billionaire who works with Jews for the beliefs and actions of hillbilly confederate flag huggers

And yet, the “hillbilly confederate flag huggers” explicitly glom onto the “centrist New York billionaire who works with Jews.” Why do you suppose that is?

@Basement_Gainz

while simultaneously ignoring direct Democrat links to violent groups.

See above re: false moral equivalency.

[anon50325502]

Can I get a good source for just what happened over the weekend? I feel like I’m missing something. I thought it was just a bunch of douche nozzles protesting each other and then a single asshat drove into a crowd resulting in 5 or so critical and 1 dead. Is that accurate or no?

[anon50325502]

@EyeDentist

Better late than never, I suppose. And it’s disheartening to see how many of those tweets fail to call the alt-right about by name.

I see what you did there…

[H_factor]

@Basement_Gainz

Who’s lunatic fringe violence is worse and more odious? The right or the left? No way we’re ever going to agree on this one. Rational people on both sides simply disown their lunatics. Of course Paul Ryan and Marco aren’t white supremacists. Nancy and Schumer aren’t Marxist street agitators.

It’s not even an argument worth having imo. Crazies on both sides can do some crazy things and kill based on their beliefs. I would like to think we can agree that motherfucking Nazis walking down the street in America is fucked up no matter what letter is preferred.

Where do you even get a Nazi flag nowdays? Do these lunatics have a seamstress who takes care of the hoods and the Nazi flag all at once? She’s still in business? Or has the flag been passed down from toothless redneck to toothless redneck? When grandpa dies I hope he wills me that sweet Nazi Flag and not my brother Jed. Jed said thank you to the black cafeteria lady who gave him an extra piece of chicken! He doesn’t deserve it!

[Basement_Gainz]

It is not false moral equivalency. Shall we do a black nationalist vs white nationalist body-count total for 2016? Wait the anti defamation league has already done that. In 2015 the white nationalists killed more people and in 2016 the Black nationalists killed more people. The FBI has internal memos attributing the deaths of 14 officers in 2016 directly to black panther/BLM/black nationalist propaganda. Links below.

There are literally people committing murder over politics on both sides. They should be roundly denounced and shunned by everyone. That’s not equivocating, it is saying “Get off your soap box!”

You cannot blame Trump for the KKK. They existed before he did. He has denounced them. They were created by Democrats for crying out loud.

Report: Cops feel betrayed by politicians, say they encourage attacks

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjDjrW789bVAhXExYMKHccdDn0QFggmMAE&usg=AFQjCNFMbJMpGdppOmSHdA9jwIG6A19-iw

[thunderbolt23]

@EyeDentist

I dispute the veracity of this statement.

As well you should - “alt right” is a term coined by Richard Spencer to label his racist movement.

[EyeDentist]

@anon50325502

I see what you did there…

Oops. Typo fixed, thanks for the head’s up.

[EyeDentist]

@Basement_Gainz

It is not false moral equivalency. Shall we do a black nationalist vs white nationalist body-count total for 2016?

No, let’s do a study on the relationship between white nationalists and the GOP vs black nationalists and the Dem Party. Because that is what we’re talking about here.

@Basement_Gainz

There are literally people committing murder over politics on both sides. They should be roundly denounced and shunned by everyone. [emphasis mine]

Especially by the POTUS, wouldn’t you say?

Saw something interesting on MSNBC this AM. They presented video clips of Reagan, Poppy Bush, Bob Dole (1996 GOP POTUS nominee), and Dubya all explicitly denouncing alt-right-type groups, and telling them to ‘get lost’ (in so many words).

Question: Will we ever see such a clip from Trump? Will he ever say ‘To all the alt-right hate groups–the white supremacists, the neo-Nazis, those who hate Muslims simply because they’re Muslim: Let me make myself perfectly clear. I do not want your support, or your vote. The GOP does not want your support, or your vote. I, and the party I represent, totally reject your ideology. So stop name-checking me when you spew your bile. Stop saying your fulfilling my promises. Crawl back under your rock, and don’t return until you are free of the racist, xenophobic evil that has infected your heart.’

@Basement_Gainz

You cannot blame Trump for the KKK. They existed before he did. He has denounced them.

Please. He lied about knowing who David Duke was, and refused to denounce him (at first). And he said nothing about the KKK (or any other groups present at Hateapalooza 2017) during his “both sides” response to Ch’ville.

Like I said before, unless there’s a bag limit on denunciating hate groups, he should have done so by name in response to Ch’ville.

@Basement_Gainz

They were created by Democrats for crying out loud.

Like I said previously–the GOP has been on the right side of history previously. But they ain’t there now. And most of what I’m hearing (on this thread) in this regard is denial.

[anon50325502]

@EyeDentist

@anon50325502

I see what you did there…

Oops. Typo fixed, thanks for the head’s up.

Lol, I thought that statement was a shot at everyone that pointed out, tirelessly, that Obama wouldn’t name terrorists by name (radical Islamist). You’re subconsciously clever I guess…

I generally don’t point out typos, my writing is at a 4th grade level.

[pfury]

@anon50325502

Lol, I thought that statement was a shot at everyone that pointed out, tirelessly, that Obama wouldn’t name terrorists by name (radical Islamist). You’re subconsciously clever I guess…

I 100% thought that’s what he was doing too.

[EyeDentist]

Y’all are giving me way too much credit…

[Tyler23]

@anon71262119

How is that NOT violence?

While I agree he should go to jail for what he did, this is a false equivalency compared to what happened this weekend. This white nationalist took a page right out of ISIS’s playbook. They are NOT the same.