Sorry Basement but the gentleman asked me a question. Please don’t read my response if my posts aggravate you.
I was teasing you because of the 75 post derail surrounding you and your views on pols being scumbags. It was meant as a lighthearted jab and certainly not as a stern rebuke.
I distrust all politicians carte blanche. For me they are all guilty until proven innocent. Politics just attracts bad people. Even if they aren’t bad and self serving from the start the process and power will corrupt them. So I can see where you’re coming from.
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Question: Do you think, if HRC had won the election, you would have this same level of “it’s just a game don’t stress about things you can’t control” attitude?
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You are a wise man. So, vote for your best interests and in the best interests of the country…as I’m sure you do. They are truly a necessary evil.
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I understand the hype and marketing, I truly do, but at what point do we stop making that excuse for them? No other politician in my (albeit short) memory has labeled themselves something other than a politician. Trump’s basic platform was that he would actively rally against politicians and their ilk, and while no I do not believe anything whole heartedly when being sold a campaign, I do feel that with the gravity of the office, the new (relatively) and wide access we have to candidates from the top to bottom of the government with social media outlets (lots easier than writing a letter and mailing the pesky thing) that at some point we, as a group, should be able to affect that sort of change.
It’s this sense of inevitability that keeps folks from making the change, do you, personally, feel that it needs to be changed from being perceived as a game? If so, why? If not, why do you feel that it is ok for folks at our highest levels to actively deceive their constituents?
An excellent question, and one that we all know the answer to already, lol.
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Until we come up with a way to form a society that doesn’t include government (never) then we will have to out up with some sort of antics. Pols have never played it straight. Ever.
My solution is limited government. Less power = Less shenanigans.
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[quote=“Despade, post:6568, topic:223365”]
I understand the hype and marketing, I truly do,[/quote]
Okay great then if you understand this then you know that only a small bit of it is real. So what can we call the rest? Lies.
Ronald Reagan ran against Washington and big government. He told people that government was the problem not the solution (a bit similar to drain the swamp). He also lied on several occasions about various stories he would tell in passing. When he left government it was actually a bit larger than before he entered it. But he did do some good things.
Bill Clinton ran “for the people” he was an outsider who was going to stand up for the little guy. He didn’t lie much when he was in office did he? “I never had sex with that woman”. But he did do some good things.
GHW Bush, ran to have a “Kinder Gentler Nation” and promised to never raise taxes. We drove Sadam back into Iraq (ouch not very gentle) and he raised taxes. But he did do some good things right?
Remember GW Bush and his weapons of mass destruction. That’s why we invaded Iraq. But no weapons were ever found…Hmm did he lie? Ha. One more point even as a republican I was against the Patriot Act. But he did do some good things.
Obama, said that he would have the most transparent administration in history. And he was going to close Gitmo…and of course fundamentally change America. Did he lie? Uh huh. But according to the liberals on this site he also did some good things. He did kill Osama Bin Laden that was a great thing.
Trump will probably be no better or worse than the previous past Presidents (although I have to believe he’ll be better than Obama…remember I’m a republican). He will go back on some of the things he promised. And most importantly…please don’t forget this. He will look, in the end, like most of the other republican Presidents.
Vote the party not the man…
That idea has my vote.
But how do we have limited government when we hand 45 million people food stamps each month. And what about the other 139 government programs that give free stuff away?
How do we put the toothpaste back in the tube?
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Whoever the President is changes nothing regarding the game. As I said the far right played the game against Obama…now the left is doing the same thing against Trump with the “Trump’s in bed with Russia” nonsense.
It’s always just a game no matter who occupies the oval office.
But, I am a republican and Hillary stands for things that I am against so sure I would be talking all day about how abortion in the 9th month is wrong and raising taxes on the job creators is also wrong etc.
That is what politics is all about.
Don’t forget corporate welfare either. We subsidize oil and renewables and giant agribusiness farms and… How do you think they get those deals? Buying pols.
As soon as a government program or handout is born it becomes someone’s pet project and simply can’t be cut.
It would take another world war to peel things back. Or the US would have to lose the dollar as the reserve currency. No way a libertarian gets elected. Notice how nobody says “it’s a free country” anymore?
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I’m not disagreeing that people tend to not come as advertised, especially in the case of politicians, but right now I’m asking you personally, why do you use the list of lies (not you lying, former presidents) you have provided as a justification? I feel that it simply shows more of a reason why we should accept less as opposed to more, that is where I disagree with you, simply where the justification begins for Trump to back out and do the shimmy on stuff, I feel that (obviously not knowing you personally, simply reading some of the debates and exchanges on here) you would hold a Democratic President to a much different standard, and if you would not accept the same standard of behavior from one party, why would you not expect the same or better from your/our own?
So with this in mind, you can see why the people on this board find your “it’s just a game don’t stress about it” mantra a little obnoxious yes?
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As I said above there is nothing that you and I can do to change the game. What we need to do is know it for what it is. Right? I have already given many examples and since you have not taken issue with them I assume you agree.
With that said, me acknowledging that it is a game does not prevent me from rooting for one side over the other based on my own best interests and where I think the country should go. How many times do I have to say that I am a republican? OBVIOSULY I am going to root for the republican where did I ever say otherwise.
But again…it’s still a game.
Well there are two separate and distinct topics here right?
- Is politics a game?
So answer number one for me. Do you think that there is gamesmanship in politics? Yes or no?
Of course. That being said, I believe the general outrage comes from you insisting that this “game” has been around all along, and only are now telling people to let things like lying politicians go because it happens to be the politicians you align with.
How does acknowledging that it is a game take away my right to choose one party over the other?
And as I have demonstrated I called this a game long before Trump became President. In fact, I called it a game on this site when Obama was the President. I have also given examples of both parties playing the game.
Tell me if you favor one team over another can you still not accept the fact that it’s still a game?
Once again I don’t disagree that politicians are seen as shoddy folks (I never grew up wanting to be one, know anyone who did?) and that politics are seemingly a sham. There are things that can be done individually, stop referring to it as a “game” it cheapens it, lessens the seriousness that the positions should hold. Rooting for one side does not mean that standards should be changed, I want my team to win as much as the next guy, but to win with the same expectations in place. Politics is a circus right now, because people expect it to be, I know I do, I roll my eyes, sigh, and change the channel, but if every day people start treating it with the gravity it deserves? Just because something has “always been” does not mean that it needs to “always be.”
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Acknowledging it’s a game doesn’t stop you from choosing a side. However (from what I’ve seen in my limited capacity), you hold separate people to different standards when it suits your ideas. I understand that all of us do this at least to some degree, but it would be a little silly to expect people to be alright with it when you weren’t alright with them doing it.
If you had maintained the presence of the “game” all along, AS WELL AS, accepting lies from politicians on both sides of the fence, I’d daresay you wouldn’t see nearly as much pushback as you’re seeing now.
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May I ask you another question?
Where do you fall on the political spectrum?