T Nation

Trump and the Courts


#1

"The Supreme Court allowed President Donald Trump’s transgender military ban to go into effect on Tuesday…"

No question that Trump’s effect on the SCOTUS and the Federal Courts will last long after he is dead and gone. This most likely is just the first salvo.

Great news for many…not so much for many others…


#2

…while legal battles continue.

We’re not talking about a ban on transgendered individuals working a cash register here. We’re talking about a touchy subject that could get men and women; including, the transgendered themselves killed.


#3

We already know there are performance issues with gender mixed units. Who the heck knows what the results will be with even greater “diversity”.


#4

Look at all the MOS’s out there; most are not combat.


#5

The cost can also be enormous…from medications and surgery…to counselling.

Let me make it clear that I am not making a value judgement (at this point) on the decision…just that Trump has, and will, have an enormous effect on the Courts.

Whether positive or negative is in eyes of the individual.


#6

This was just a cheap attempt to get some applause from his base. At the end of the day how many people will this affect? Was the military being overrun with transgender people trying to join?


#7

Presumably there will be some that want to be or are put in combat MOS’. I guess we could exclude them from combat MOS’ much like women for so long, but we’ve seen how that went.


#8

I don’t know, but it must have pissed someone off or it wouldn’t have made it all the way to SCOTUS.


#9

The thing is, you can want to be in whatever MOS you want but you need to have the ability to perform. There are still standards that need to be met. I think most would say that when their lives are on the line they care more about the competency of those who have their backs more than how they identify.

With that said, I don’t think it is as simple as that as there are potential issues with standards. Does a male who identifies as a female have to meet female or male standards, for example.


#10

I think, from Trump’s perspective, it was about pissing the right people (from his base’s viewpoint) off. It’s all about those liberal sjw tears. I’m sure the military could have figured out how to deal with the few soldiers who were transgender without making a publicity stunt out of it.


#11

Agreed and that’s the issue for me.

Not only that, but the standards are not even the same for men and women. At least not in the Corps.

Agree as well.


#12

Absolutely!

Great point.


#13

Something to always remember, guys.

Historically; the U.S. Military has ALWAYS been ahead of the rest of society when it comes to social change.

Example? The services (and most units) were integrated (Black and White) long before society began to accept integration.(Which many don’t even accept as of 2019).


#14

That’s where it gets tricky. If a male merely identifies as female he should be able to pass male standards. If not then there is a problem. The Army PT standards for women in their early 20s, and younger, are almost the same as for men over 60. A 60+ male has to run 2 miles faster than a 27 year old female, wtf? If it’s someone who actually went through a physical transformation then what standards do you go by?


#15

The Sports world is currently grappling (albeit VERY poorly) with this very question.


#16

Hasn’t there been some controversy with this in that some African Americans were drafted and told to rush out of defilade and get killed so that another trooper can get around and put a grenade in the machine gun post?


#17

As with all dramatic change…there were definitely some struggles within the Military with integration. One issue my Grandfather brought up that was not uncommon were white individuals not wanting to take orders from someone black of a higher rank.

One thing about the Military was that you complied; or you were court martialed and released.


#18

In dire combat situations might they also apply the death penalty?


#19

@DeadKong:

@usmccds423 (or those familiar with the History of War) can chime in…but certainly in past Wars…there was a “Battle Field Justice” that was sometimes delivered…and what “happened on the Battle Field stayed on the battle Field”.

The most recent War that we know of where this was true was Vietnam; where they called it “fragging” someone who was a shit and/or a detriment to the Unit.

Certainly in earlier wars…things like deserters were delivered very swift Justice.


#20

Not so much the men’s sporting world, interestingly enough.