T Nation

Trt with Hcg/AI Safe Long Term?


#1

Love trt so far, one year in!
My balls have gotten smaller and fear they will turn into collagen balls, atropic and scared down.
I want to add hcg but my E2 shoots up even on low dose. Thus I would need an AI

What’s the safest trt route? Health being paramount
Trt alone
Trt with hcg and arimidex?
Trt with hcg and aromasin?

I can’t find any long term studies on trt with hcg and AI… @KSman. @systemlord
And input? Thanks!!!


#2

You need a very small dose that prevent damage. Common dose is 250iu SC EOD. Try 100iu twice a week. If that does not work, 50mg twice a week. You will need 5000iu or 3000iu vials, 10,000 will last too long. Must be diluted with BA water, 0.9% benzyl alcohol. Some lower doses might be in kits for female ovulation timing where the water is not BA water and the whole vial is injected at once.

Long term use of hCG and anastrozole involves good mood, libido, energy, fertility, healthier testes etc. Long term without hCG is as you describe and elevated E2 in males is not healthy in many ways.

Anastrozole cannot touch testicular T–>E2 production, but will have some effect on peripheral T–>E2.

Arimidex/anastrozole is typically a drug load of 1mg/week, 1/4mg for some. Aromasin is much higher and typically more costly.

For many here, T alone would be too much E2, lost libido, bad mood or depression, fat gain, probably negative effects on prostate and more cardiovascular problems aka lower quality of life and lower life expectancy. Tiny testes are not good for one’s sexual self image and many women would have a strong opinion.


#3

Thanks so much!!! Love the answer!

So should I do a low dose of hcg that I wouldn’t need an AI or just do the 250 eod with appropriate arimidex dose?

And sorry if I misread but you say long term trt without hcg is more dangerous or less healthy than adding hcg right?


#4

I think no one knows long term negative affects on the human body since there are maybe 1 study. Long term an sure you mean over 10 years. Looks like ksman is referring long term to feeling good.
Others can just describe their experience. Those on HCG more than 10 years or dex can speak up.


#5

hCG is a natural human hormone and in your first months in the womb you were soaking it it. LH and hCG are complex peptide [amino acids] hormones with two lobes. Both have a lobe that activates LH receptors and those lobes are essentially identical. You need to make a distinction between chemical drugs and human hormones.

Many of the processes of aging are from low hormone levels or imbalances. TRT and other HRT work restores useful balanced and optimal hormone levels and many of the problems of aging are reversible. However, starting these hormone interventions really late in life where aging has become structurally damaging is too late.

When someone has a lot of T–>E2 inside there testes with lower doses of hCG, I think that the cause is a variation in the LH receptor gene expression chain. The only way to know would be via a study at 23andme. I have proposed a number of things like that to them to look into: anastrozole over-responders, hCG issues, those damaged by 5-alpha reductase oral hair loss drugs, those damages by deca or prohormones, those who need higher E2[too small of a study group], T hyper metabolizers …


#6

I see. I tried 250 iu of HCG with my T and I did not feel good on it. Mostly high e2 symptoms. And I am the one that got a metallic taste after my very first 2 injections. So I just ceased it. Maybe ill try in the future again. The T alone with a but of dex is great for me. Testes still hang when E2 is right. Testes did not change in size much. Started in dec 2017.
I just wanted the HCG because I think there is something to continuing to activate those LH receptors.


#7

HCG is present in pregnant women for a specific reason. HCG is not naturally present in a man if it is (without HCG injection) it is a sign that you may have cancer since is secreted by adnormal germ cells.
So what you state is your opinion based on your understanding of this hormone. It may provide benefits but no one really knows what else it is doing.


#8

Charlie, I think you are being a bit overly cautious about hCG. As far as your testes and feeling good or not, you’ve only been doing trt for 3-4 months (from what I can tell?). I’ve been on for 2 years and consider myself a complete noob. But what I can tell you is that in 3 months your body hasn’t even fully adjusted to your trt, let alone any changes you’ve introduced in the meantime. Further, you haven’t been on long enough to experience any significant testicle shrinkage and its accompanying symptoms . As far as metallic taste in your mouth, you cannot assume that’s a negative thing, or that it would continue, nor even that it was even the hCG.

I’ll just put it this way. It’s far more unnatural for your body to be without LH than it is for your body to see hCG.

sorry, I couldn’t tell if you started TRT in dec '17, or if you tried hCG in dec '17


#9

I just don’t agree that when someone ask about long term affects and one of us come out and states is good.
All we can do is share our experiences.
It would be nice to hear from a 70 year old that had been using HCG for many years.

I do intend to try it again. I just want to get my e2 straightened out first while on just t.

I have read in several places that state if you are not concerned for fertility there is no need to take HCG.

It’s quite confusing.


#10

The need arises when HCG does something beneficial for you, not somebody else.