T Nation

TRT Test Only 4yrs; Adding Compounds & Labs ASAP

Hey guys good to be here, been reading a lot & boy have l been doing my TRT wrong.

Been on for 4 yrs, 100mg/wk Test Cyp 100mg/ml.
No hCG, no AI’s, rarely done Labs.

Getting Labs done soon, will add hCG and Adex once l get results. l may do a SERM as well to lower E2 as l’m sure it’l be too high.

At this point what should l get Labs on; TT, FT, E2 & what else?

[quote]Lch4poGzm4n wrote:
Hey guys good to be here, been reading a lot & boy have l been doing my TRT wrong.

Been on for 4 yrs, 100mg/wk Test Cyp 100mg/ml.
No hCG, no AI’s, rarely done Labs.

Getting Labs done soon, will add hCG and Adex once l get results. l may do a SERM as well to lower E2 as l’m sure it’l be too high.

At this point what should l get Labs on; TT, FT, E2 & what else?[/quote]

You may not want to mix your AI with a SERM. I added the link below that may help you. There is a chance that you may not need anything and you were fine the whole time but the blood work will tell you that. Personally, I don’t take the hCG but then I already have four boys.

[quote]Lch4poGzm4n wrote:
Hey guys good to be here, been reading a lot & boy have l been doing my TRT wrong.

Been on for 4 yrs, 100mg/wk Test Cyp 100mg/ml.
No hCG, no AI’s, rarely done Labs.[/quote]

You haven’t been doing it wrong. Your treatment conforms to the standard of care that works very well for the majority of people. If you are doing good on this regimen, I wouldn’t add other stuff just to be fancy. All the ancillary drugs you mention come with their own problems, side effects, and risks, and should only be considered if you are not doing good on your current regimen.

And how you feel is much more important than the fool’s errand of chasing specific numbers in blood work. Different guys do best on different levels of T, E2, etc., anyway, so there is no “correct” level of any of the hormones, despite claims you will see to the contrary.

If E2 is elevated, AI will lower it and you QOL may increase greatly
If testes are whithered, they may not recover

hCG is a ‘replacement’ for LH
SERM’s cause LH/FSH release from pituitary

TT, FT
E2
fT3, fT4, FSH - not T3, T4
self check your body temperatures, see the thyroid basics sticky
DHEA-S
CBC
cholesterol

How do you pay for labs? Might be cheaper at LEF.org, male panel

Are you self medicating?

see the advice for new guys sticky and add more info, we do not even know age, weight, waist and hight.

Age: 35
Height: 5:7
Weight: 165lbs
Waist: 34
Body/facial hair: used to be very little body hair, since on TRT more leg, abs stomach, and patchy around chest & back. Facial hair grows full and steady.
Head scalp hair: before TRT was very thick; after TRT hair has been falling & thinning substancially and is now pretty thin.
Carry fat: since childhhood around midsection and chest (prob gyno). Other body parts are “skinny” legs, arms.
Meds: Terazosin 2mg/d, before this med i had to piss every hr. Simvastatin for high cholesterol since TRT.
Training: 2-3x/wk 45 minutes alternating muscles weightlifting. Walking or light jogs 30-45 mins.
Morning wood: is mostly nonexistent for years. Sex drive/libido extremely low. Weak erections, thank God for ed meds.

Labs:

Labs Before TRT
Total Testosterone 100 Range 250-1100 ng/dL
Free Testosterone 12.0 Range 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
Bioavailable Testosterone 26.3 Range 110.0-575.0 ng/dL
Albumin 4.8 Range 3.6-5.1 g/dL
Globulin 32 Range 8-48 nmol/L

Labs 4 weeks after starting TRT
TT 839 Range 250-1100
FT 151 Range 46-224
BT 343.4 Range 110-575
Albumin 5.0 Range 3.6-5.1
Globulin 25 Range 8-48

Labs 1.5 years after starting TRT
TT 480 Range 250-1100
FT 90.6 Range 46-224
BT 190.3 Range 110-575
Albumin 4.6
Gobulin 21

[quote]KSman wrote:
If E2 is elevated, AI will lower it and you QOL may increase greatly
If testes are whithered, they may not recover

hCG is a ‘replacement’ for LH
SERM’s cause LH/FSH release from pituitary

TT, FT
E2
fT3, fT4, FSH - not T3, T4
self check your body temperatures, see the thyroid basics sticky
DHEA-S
CBC
cholesterol

How do you pay for labs? Might be cheaper at LEF.org, male panel

Are you self medicating?

see the advice for new guys sticky and add more info, we do not even know age, weight, waist and hight.[/quote]

My T is prescribed by my doc.

Labs have been done at his office but l’m prob ganna do them elsewhere if he doesn’t order what l want; meeting in a few days. Thanks for the heads up on LEF, however I dont see testing on FSH, fT3 or fT4.

Anyone know what Labs to do to check if my body is producing what amounts of HGH?

LEF has those labs, you have to find the list of all labs that are offered. Find a thyroid panel.

No point in testing LH/FSH when on TRT as will be zero. You meant TSH, part of thyroid panel.

GH has a very short half life and is release in pulses. That makes GH labs sort of useless. In the liver, GH is processed to create IGF-1 which has a long half life. IGF-1 is the lab that you need to eval GH status.

Statin drugs can make one feel weak and stupid. They reduce cholesterol by affecting the same enzyme pathways that produce CoQ10. Every cell in your body has mitochondria that produce the foundation for energy for the rest of the cells. That requires CoQ10. When a statin drug creates a CoQ10 deficiency … you can guess the rest.

Any muscle pain?

If you have a cough, the above problem is leading the the same mechanics of congestive heart failure. If you take CoQ10, get the Ubiquinol form, 50 or 100mg.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Statin drugs can make one feel weak and stupid. They reduce cholesterol by affecting the same enzyme pathways that produce CoQ10. Every cell in your body has mitochondria that produce the foundation for energy for the rest of the cells. That requires CoQ10. When a statin drug creates a CoQ10 deficiency … you can guess the rest.

Any muscle pain?

If you have a cough, the above problem is leading the the same mechanics of congestive heart failure. If you take CoQ10, get the Ubiquinol form, 50 or 100mg.
[/quote]

No muscle pain no caugh. But feel fatigued most of the day. Difficulty getting out of bed always. Can sleep 10-12 hrs a night easily. Low energy, motivation and extreme apathy.l’ll be looking into CoQ10, thanks!

l’m getting labs done this week. Theres an HGH blood test that statess:

Description: Growth Hormone tests are performed to screen for abnormal pituitary functions and also to test for the use of performance enhancing steroids. A significant deviation from the normal range may require further evaluation by your physician.

l feel l am low on GH is this a recommended test or am l ok just testing IGF-1?

Do not test hGH, IGF-1 is the best indicator of hGH status.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Do not test hGH, IGF-1 is the best indicator of hGH status.[/quote]

Ok thanks. What about cortisol and DHT, should i get labs on that?

You can test AM cortisol, if low, you get low energy

DHT follows T levels, you cannot directly control, so no point

Got my lab results; will post them but need to figure out how to from PDF. If anyone has a quick way please lmk.

A couple interesting surprises

TSH 9.210 Is Very High! Range 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL. Not sure what to make of this. Did a little research on hypothyroidism and read the thyroid basics sticky. Iodine deficiency and adrenal fatigue; l feel a bit confused not sure where to go from here but l want to move forward asap. This could explain the chronic fatigue, lack of energy, motivation, and lethargy, apathy, and depression, low libido, cold hands & feet. Getting a thermometer and taking body temps tomorrow. Have also had what doctors call benign tremor on my hands/fingers probably from this. Where should l go from here?
Thyroxine (T4) 5.8 Range 4.5-12.0ug/dL
T3 Uptake 38 Range 24-39%
Free Thyroxine Index 2.2 Range 1.2-4.9
T4,Free (Direct) 1.27 Range 0.82-1.77ng/dL
DHEA-Sulfate 187.4 Range 102.6-416.3ug/dL

l’ve always felt my hGH is too low but here’s the IGF-1 results 209 Range 71-241 ng/mL. Does this suggest my hGH levels are ok?

Estradiol, sensitive 12 Range 9-70 pg/mL. This was my main reason for labs, l thought my E2 was prob too high but its not.
TT 826 Range 348-1197ng/dL.
FT 21.6 Range 8.7-25.1pg/mL.

[quote]Lch4poGzm4n wrote:

TSH 9.210 Is Very High! Range 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL. Not sure what to make of this. Did a little research on hypothyroidism and read the thyroid basics sticky. Iodine deficiency and adrenal fatigue; l feel a bit confused not sure where to go from here but l want to move forward asap. This could explain the chronic fatigue, lack of energy, motivation, and lethargy, apathy, and depression, low libido, cold hands & feet. Getting a thermometer and taking body temps tomorrow. Have also had what doctors call benign tremor on my hands/fingers probably from this. Where should l go from here?

l’ve always felt my hGH is too low but here’s the IGF-1 results 209 Range 71-241 ng/mL. Does this suggest my hGH levels are ok?
[/quote]

In my opinion, first treat the one glaring problem, which is the hypothyroidism. Your sex hormone numbers look very good and no need to change your TRT at this point - you don’t want to change more than one variable at a time.

Once your hypothyroidism is treated I suspect you will feel pretty good. If so, no further changes are necessary. But if you don’t feel good you can then retest sex hormones (which may be changed by thyroid treatment) and go from there. If you wanted to add HCG then would be the time to do so, once your thyroid treatment has stabilized. Don’t add it at the same time as the thyroid treatment since it will make it very difficult to gauge whcih symptoms are from which change.

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]Lch4poGzm4n wrote:

TSH 9.210 Is Very High! Range 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL. Not sure what to make of this. Did a little research on hypothyroidism and read the thyroid basics sticky. Iodine deficiency and adrenal fatigue; l feel a bit confused not sure where to go from here but l want to move forward asap. This could explain the chronic fatigue, lack of energy, motivation, and lethargy, apathy, and depression, low libido, cold hands & feet. Getting a thermometer and taking body temps tomorrow. Have also had what doctors call benign tremor on my hands/fingers probably from this. Where should l go from here?

l’ve always felt my hGH is too low but here’s the IGF-1 results 209 Range 71-241 ng/mL. Does this suggest my hGH levels are ok?
[/quote]

In my opinion, first treat the one glaring problem, which is the hypothyroidism. Your sex hormone numbers look very good and no need to change your TRT at this point - you don’t want to change more than one variable at a time.

Once your hypothyroidism is treated I suspect you will feel pretty good. If so, no further changes are necessary. But if you don’t feel good you can then retest sex hormones (which may be changed by thyroid treatment) and go from there. If you wanted to add HCG then would be the time to do so, once your thyroid treatment has stabilized. Don’t add it at the same time as the thyroid treatment since it will make it very difficult to gauge whcih symptoms are from which change. [/quote]

Agreed. I have an appt with my doc next week but l’d like to start taking an iodine supplement. Thinking of taking 2 pills/day of 12.5mg ea (iodine 5mg, iodide 7.5mg)in hopes of feeling a bit better. But don’t want this to interfere with the thyroid treatment or if the doc wants to run more labs on TSH.

You need to test for thyroid antibodies. Might be more than an iodine deficiency.
Would be good to get fT3, that is what gets the job done.
Dry skin? Feel cold easily? General hair loss?
Thyroid is enlarged, throat appears thick? Asymmetric? Lumpy?
Difficulty swallowing or soreness?

Please also report your history of using iodized salt and/or vitamins listing iodine.

What was your pre statin total cholesterol?

Your variations in T levels are probably artifacts of injecting once a week and testing at different times during the week. Please start injecting twice a week or more often. See the stickies.

[quote]KSman wrote:
You need to test for thyroid antibodies. Might be more than an iodine deficiency.
Would be good to get fT3, that is what gets the job done.
Dry skin? Feel cold easily? General hair loss?
Thyroid is enlarged, throat appears thick? Asymmetric? Lumpy?
Difficulty swallowing or soreness?

Please also report your history of using iodized salt and/or vitamins listing iodine.

What was your pre statin total cholesterol?

Your variations in T levels are probably artifacts of injecting once a week and testing at different times during the week. Please start injecting twice a week or more often. See the stickies.[/quote]

Heres the Labs on (fT3) Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.6 Range 2.0-4.4 pg/mL

Dry skin yes mainly extremely dry scalp, dry top of hands and a little dryness on the face.
Lots of hair loss but mostly started after TRT and its even throughout no receding hairline or balding; my hair used to be real thick now its pretty thin.
My hands and feet are usually very cold, been this way since l can remember; l do get cold easier than most.
Throat does not appear thick, asymmetric or lumpy and no difficulty swallowing or soreness.

As far as l can remember l’ve always used iodized salt as a seasoner only so not a whole lot. No vitamins with iodine in the past. Pre statin cholesterol levels were always ok but l don’t have the numbers.

lnjecting twice a week is better just started doing that.

[quote]Lch4poGzm4n wrote:
Pre statin cholesterol levels were always ok but l don’t have the numbers. [/quote]

In that case why are you on statins?

If TRT is causing a bad lipid profile and making you bald without any clear advantages, I would consider stopping TRT or at the very least reconsider dosage. If the dosages are truly replacement doses, it should not have deleterious effects on lipids, which suggests that the dose you are on may be too high for you.

Statins are really not good for you, so if the price of TRT is having to take statins, it is not worth it IMO.

TRT typically lowers total cholesterol with no change to HDL. So I don’t know what seekonk is getting at.

Thyroid issues affect lipid metabolization so one cannot strictly attribute things to TRT.

When these things happen, I can only blame the doctor’s professional ignorance.