T Nation

TRT + tamoxifen 1st month


#42

You really need your free t measured. Erections libido can take a bit longer. It’s only 6 weeks. The endocrine system will need time. We use 6 weeks to see if you feel horrible but you say u feel good except the erections libido.

Many report the great feeling 2 weeks in then down then back up after you stabilize.

You need to free t measured.
And I would check TSH , free t3 , free t4

Libido is more complex then just having good total t and estrogen. Btw ur e2 looks good.

Also with 100 mg a week why take tomoxafin? Maybe stop that esp since e2 looks good. Maybe that’s causing sides.


#43

My SHBG is 22 and my levels were swinging on twice weekly to the point my body couldn’t reach homeostasis, 2.5 days after injection I could feel a moderate crash, blue mood, social withdraw with no apparent reason. I just felt off.

The fact that erection were good 3-4 weeks suggests an HPTA shutdown and you must wait for your body to reach balance. We all go through this HPTA shutdown where it feels as if TRT isn’t working, our bodies don’t adapted on the fly, it takes time and everyone is different.

It takes a full year to realize 80 percent of what TRT has to offer health wise, muscle growth can continue to improve beyond a year. A lot of guys quit TRT because they were expecting immediate results, our endocrine systems operate a bit more allowly than we would like.


#44

I am only 19. I need to maintain my fertility somehow,the only reason i am using tamox. The only issues i have right now is that im getting thinner and retaining bellyfat and i have puffy cheeks all the time.
I was thinking of reducing my T dosage to 40mg every 3.5 day but i guess maybe i need to give myself more time.I’ll get those thyroid labs though it looks fine with hairloss as only symptom i guess.Maybe constipation is because my thyroid is getting worse due to trt and i had that thyroid problem all the time…my temperatures are perfect though.
Thanks for your help man


#45

I guess i am okay with the frequency since i dont get much difference in mood etc
after starting trt there is change in mood and confidence but not something too much which i read everywhere…You are right i need to give myself more time. The main issue for me right now is bellyfat and puffiness which i guess will solve by itself after a time.
About the hpta shutdown, i thought tamoxifen prevented that?
Guys thank you so much though. This forum has made my life much better right now and i have learned alot due to you guys :slight_smile:


#46

Nothing prevents an HPTA shutdown, nothing.


#47

You ever tried IR systemlord?Any side effects like bloating or constipation?
Actually i am confused because i read that both high estrogen and bromine detoxification can cause these.
Stools are normal but they are like once in 3 days.


#48

On my own experience… Too much T --> constipation. I suspect that happens because high T --> high E2 --> water retention --> not enough water for your colon as cells takes everything --> constipation (and headache for me).

What to do? Remember to drink a lot. Downregulate T intake and/or add AI. Or wait few months and see if your body adapts. And drink water.


#49

@systemlord
free T levels came back at 31pg/ml (8-25). As a low shbg guy i guess i need a less and more frequent dose than 50mg test twice a week. I am thinking of 30mg test every 2.5 day. Maybe this will get those E2 levels down and hopefully bloat will end too. I’ll get lab reports on this protocol after 6 weeks.
Questions:
1)Do i need to lower dose even more?
2)I haven’t seen any reduction in bellyfat.Always had it. Do i need to wait more or should i get something else tested?
3)i read that low shbg guys suffer from hairloss and pubertal gyno and the same case is with me.Is their something i can do to stop this receding hairline.All my family members have heads full of hair.


#50

When I was doing 50mg twice weekly I was losing hair in certain places, not so injecting smaller doses EOD. You can boost DHT by injecting large infrequent doses of T, so daily injections is best will decrease testosterone peaks and therefore DHT peaks and say hello to more hair and less estrogen. Daily injections will lower estrogen even further.

Two birds with one stone.


#51

@systemlord
i guess you have been on trt for about a year.How did the dosing and timings of injections affected your body composition. Should i expect a change in body composition on trt considering i have low shbg and its been 2 months with no visible changes. Can eod injections have an impact on fatloss?
Thank you so much for your time.


#52

I haven’t remained in a stable state for more than 3 months, in those 3 months I notice muscle mass increasing and body comp changes, but keep changing protocol do to high estrogen and therefore lose any improvements in muscle mass and body comp changes.

EOD injections seemed to be where muscle mass increases and body comp changes started to occur, twice weekly injections didn’t do much for me.


#53

@systemlord
what do you suggest?
should i wait 6 weeks with this 30mg every 2.5 day protocol i started this week or should i jump on 20mg eod first and watch results.


#54

I believe 30mg EOD too much for an EOD protocol, 20-25mg EOD. A 2.5 day protocol is difficult to follow, every injection is on a different day and different time of day.


#55

@systemlord
started this 20mg eod protocol 2 weeks ago
hairfall is still the same.losing tooo maaanny hair.
even though i use tamoxifen 10mg ed i still feel a different kind of pain in both nipples.Puffy nipples.i already had gyno to some extent before trt but it is even getting worse now. Should i wait or
1)should i start arimidex 0.1mg eod?
2)i am too young to lose my hair.Is their any solution to this like prp, minoxidil anything?
It sucks to be a low shbg guy
are you suffering from any of these?


#56

If your hair started thinning from tamoxifen treatment, the loss usually levels off after the first year. But the thinning may last as long as you take the drug, which might be as long as five years.

Tamoxifen causes hair loss, yes it does suck to be low SHBG. If you take hair loss medication, the Tamoxifen may still cause hair loss as it’s a battle to see which medication wins. You’re treating the high estrogen and doing so causes you to treat the hair loss from Tamoxifen, then you are treating the hair loss from Tamoxifen with hair loss treatment.

You’re chasing your own tail.

I’m not on Tamoxifen so I have no hair loss.


#57

i’ll drop tamoxifen for a month.Lets see if there are any improvements. I’ll try to get hcg if possible
should i increase my test dose after dropping tamox like instead of 20, i can do 25mg eod?


#58

@systemlord @physioLojik
Since low shbg is somehow connected with diabetes amd metabolic disorder. Is A1C test enough to find that out? i am on trt for about 3 months and trt has an effect on insulin sensitivity, is their any point now getting A1C or should i have done that before jumping on trt?


#59

A1C can inform you that your diet is not right for you, my A1C increased on certain foods. Whenever you change you diet, you can see how your body is responding by checking A1C. It’s going to take the better part of a year to where glucose stabilizes.

Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months.


#60

any specific lab test you know to check if i am diabetic? it might be the root cause behind low t. Low shbg is a symtom too.


#61

Diabetes doesn’t cause low testosterone, it does lower SHBG which then lowers total testosterone and increase free testosterone. A1C and morning insulin measurements will show if you have diabetes.

Don’t waste time searching for a cause of low testosterone, it’s known that testosterone is on the decline across the entire population and in the last 10 years men of all ages and showing to have low testosterone, especially younger men.

Doctors haven’t identified the cause, not yet. You have low testosterone and there’s nothing you can do about it except treat it with TRT and move on with your life.