TRT: Protocol for Injections

Hmm, wouldn’t it be better to start without an ai until one has bloodwork/symptoms to prove that it’s needed. Most people on other forums don’t seem to need an ai on 100mgs per week.

You can do that if you wish. Depends on what your definition of “not needing” is. If your E2 is in lower 20’s before you start TRT, or higher, you probably need an AI.

General question: For those on injections, how do you make up for the lack of T–>DHT needed for libido?

I’m thinking about going on injections (my doc says it is my decision and he’ll go with whatever I decide). But transdermal T creates more DHT than injections, but only IF the T is absorbed, right? On the other hand, Injections will increase T for sure, but what about DHT?

I was able to get above range DHT when I started injections 7 years ago. I think that some on transdermals are getting above range DHT results if they absorb well. The consequences of that will be increased rates of hair loss for those genetically predisposed for that. Again, when they switch to injections, the relative change is felt and some of that will be transient.

[quote]KSman wrote:
You do not mix oil based with water. So no T+hCG in the same syringe.

Bushy, “insulin monojects” is what? Basic insulin syringes?

I insert an insulin needle in a test cyp vial and pull back the plunger and hand the lot by the vial and come back in a few minutes.[/quote]

hope this is okay to reply after so long… curious KSman what you mean by “hand the lot by the vial”? i know with the insulin syringe it takes a while to pull in… and it would be nice to leave it and come back… like you do… can you explain? thank you!

Should have been hanG the lot buy the vial, hanging the vial with the needle stuck in the vial while the syringe fills.

what do you hang it with? thx

Wife has two wicker baskets on the bathroom sink, gap between the two. How is that for high tech?

sounds like i need to get creative! thanks for the idea!

Hey. I was on androgel for 6 weeks, first at 2 pumps per day, but was upped to 3. T barely increased. Test is currently 171. Today I just got my first injection of Test Cyp from my endocrinologist. He wants to start at 1ml/200mg every 2 weeks and see how that goes, he may up it to 350 or 300 every 2 weeks after that. I really appreciate your post. Very informative. So if I just take the Cyp alone am I at higher risk for the negative effects of TRT?

Thanks a lot

Please read the advice for new guys sticky and create your own thread - thanks.

KSMan, can you give the brand name of syringes you are using, 29 0.5ml 0.5" [50iu] insulin syringes? Thanks!

KSman,
Can you tell me where you buy these 29g .5ml 1/2 inch syringes from? I cannot see to find them. Thanks!

[quote]KSman wrote:
Many guys ask for these details. Here is enough info to get started. You probably will not get your doctor aligned with this without a struggle [or a new doctor]. This is really a small part of what most guys need to know.

TRT: Protocol for Injections

  • 100mg test cypionate or ethanate injected per week with two or more injections per week.
  • 250iu hCG SC EOD [every other day]
  • 1.0mg Arimidex/anastrozole per week in divided doses.

Injecting testosterone once a week induces spikes in testosterone levels followed by lows. This can make many feel bad or worse at the end of the week than their pre-TRT state. As time goes on the dead zone gets wider and they feel no relief with injections. These feel much better injecting twice a week or even EOD [every other day].

Injecting every 2, 3 or 4 weeks is horrible. You need to self inject and inject frequently. With frequent injections the volumes are very small and one can inject in the quads [vastus lateralis] with #29 0.5ml 0.5" [50iu] insulin syringes.

These are slow to load but injection times are reasonable as the small plunger diameters create very high pressures. Do not use 1.0ml syringes. This same size syringe can be used for hCG injections, which are also SC.

EDIT: Injecting EOD [sometimes written as E2D] or E3D [every third day] can be a difficult schedule. You can set up reminders or appointments in calendar software, such as MS Outlook, for E2D or E3D etc.

Small needles will reduce muscle damage. Some use #25 1" needles, but this may not be any “faster” than the above 50iu insulin needles.

You do not need to inject into your gluts with 1.5" needles!

Canadian clinical research has demonstrated that TRT by SC [under the skin injections into body fat] produce steadier testosterone levels and improves sense of well-being. Feel free to find out what is more comfortable for you.

For those who train and sweat/shower a lot, transdermal T creams and gels are not appropriate.

Transdermal T creams [and patches] are expensive. At best, only about 10% of applied testosterone is absorbed. Transdermal delivered dose is a crap shoot. Guys who have low thyroid levels are typically non-absorbers. Some absorb transdermals at the start, but skin changes can shut off absorption after a while. With injections, there are no unknowns about drug delivery.

hCG is a water based peptide hormone can be injected to replace the lost LH hormone that TRT shuts down. Without hCG, the LH receptors in the testes are no longer getting activated. The results are:

  • The testes shrink. Over time for some the testes can eventually become small undifferentiated lumps of collagen. This is drug induced organ failure. The degree of shrinking varies from guy to guy and may be more of a problem for the older guys.

  • Fertility can be greatly reduced or eliminated. If making babies is important, you need to inject hCG. If hCG is not used, its use after a long time may or may not recover fertility.

  • When the testes get smaller, some feel an ache in their testes 24x7. hCG injections can eliminate that pain or avoid the whole episode.

  • When there is no LH or hCG, the scrotum pulls up tight to the body. This has the appearance of a pre-pubescent boy. This is not good for ones sexual self image and this also affects how women perceive you sexually. Some women get very upset when they see this maleness disappear, thus affecting their sexuality and interest in you.

  • The testes are the single largest producer of the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is important for proper mental functioning, and is the precursor to all of the steroid hormones such as DHEA, testosterone, DHT, estrogen, cortisol… Injecting hCG prevents a drug induced pregnenolone deficiency and helps support the other hormones. When guys are on T without hCG and then start hCG, they report a significant improvement in mood that many attribute to restored pregnenolone levels. [If that is not the case, hCG must have some direct effects in the brain.]

When injecting hCG, you inject into the fat under the skin just the same as diabetics inject insulin. The product literature is all about use a fertility drug for women with large IM [injected into muscle] doses. There is no need for men to inject hCG IM.

Research using SC injections in men has demonstrated the effectiveness of the 250iu EOD dosing. You can seek diabetic patient educational material for insulin injection techniques to use for hCG and/or testosterone injections.

Elevated normal [30pg/ml and up] serum E2/estradiol can block many of the benefits of testosterone replacement. Serum E2=22pg/ml is near optimal and one should dose anastrozole to get close to this level. Many who start TRT have some good results that soon vanish as E2 levels increase. My recommendation is to start anastrozole at 1.0mg per week [in divided doses] starting the day of the first injection. The let the first follow up E2 lab drive any needed anastrozole dose adjustments. It is not a good idea to wait and see how high E2 levels go before taking action. Dose anastrozole EOD if possible.

A few guys are anastrozole over responders. This is not known in the drug literature. These guys will get E2 in the single digits and will feel like crap physically and mentally. They may feel a spike of short lived libido as they fall through the E2 levels sweet spot. These guys need to take 1/4th or 1/8th of the expected anastrozole dose -something to watch for. If this is suspected, stop anastrozole for 6-7 days then resume at 1/4th the dose.

The 100mg dose of injected T should get guys into the 800-900 total testosterone [TT] range. That is nice to see, but one should be looking at free testosterone [FT] or bio-available testosterone [bio-T]. Some docs, who know what they are doing, will not bother checking TT numbers at all. SHBG levels increase with age and FT ratios drop.

A TT=1000 in a young man is not the same as TT=1000 in an older man with higher SHBG levels as the FT numbers will be well below that of the young man with the same TT. This may very well create TT levels that are above the youthful lab ranges and should not be a concern. Lab ranges shown on lab reports will be age adjusted. You need to be using the ranges for youthful men.

You need to know about PSA, prostate issues and DREs [digital rectal exam]. E2 is a large cause or aggravator of BPH [enlarged prostate]. Many find that lowering E2 to near E2=22pg/ml improves their BPH and urine flow is improved.

You need to monitor hematocrit levels as part of your routine lab work.

[/quote]

I’ve been injecting with the 29G .5’’ 1cc slin for about a year pretty much exclusively in Quads (VL) Very painless… Loading the pins is kinda a bitch & very slow… Injecting is simple… Whats easier for faster loading 1) 27G or 2)going with the .5cc slins?
Also how do you hang the vial to drain in? I like that idea any way you can post a vid

I received my HCG today. Tomorrow will be 2 days before my test injection. Would it make since to have a larger initial injection? Maybe a 500 IU for the first one? I do not know if it makes sense to “load up” the first dose. I am currently taking .5ML of Testosterone Cyp per week. I have noticed a definite reduction in the size of my testicles as well as a very noticeable decrease in ejaculate.

I want to use the HCG to promote the activation of what test my body can produce, counter the testicular atrophy and keep the ejaculate volume. I plan to use 250 IU’s 2 days before my test shot and 250 IU’s the day after my test shot. Any opinions? The next time I have my blood work I will post all results.

[quote]KSman wrote:
I know one guy who needs 300/week and some others around 200, just to get high normal levels. These guys have processes in there bodies that eat T or eat the T esters. Some genetic variations or conditions of the kidneys can lead to spilling of some body chemicals by the kidneys. That can lower steroids, which does include vit-D25 hormone and some other things. I know one guy who needs vast amounts of vit-D to get proper vit-D serum lab numbers.

The 100mg/week dose seems to be a magic number and many docs will not go higher. And some will have good TT numbers and lower FT numbers and docs only see the TT and SHBG bound T and will not go higher. Some docs look at the FT number and will increase the dose if needed to get high normal youthful [non age adjusted] FT numbers. Some docs do not even test TT, only FT or bio-T.

If you are lusting for more T, you would be better off first optimizing your T levels to optimize your FT response and TRT benefits. If E is not well managed, you could double your T and feel like crap. This conversation can easily then drift into discussions of neural transmitters that become limiting factors for some guys, typically the older guys.

And yes, some guys abuse T just because they can. A few doctors seem to be very liberal, suspiciously so. [/quote]

If you are doing 100mg per week, what does that break down to in IU’s per injection? Do you only do these M-W-F and skip the weekend? Thanks!

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I have been shooting HCG at .65 ml for two days prior to weekly t shot. I plan on asking my doctor to switch to shooting t twice a week as I have developed a larger low spot between injections. How should I go about dosing hcg if I shot t twice a week?

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