T Nation

TRT Protocol Established. Thoughts?

So I decided to make a new chain since no one responded to this question in my previous chain. I have attached my tests in here for reference. I’m 27 y/o, by the way._

Okay. So I had my appointment with Defy Medical and they put me on this TRT Protocal. This is what the doctor recommended. You can refer to my lab work earlier in the chain. I am curious for your thoughts.

1) Testosterone Cypionate: 150 mg/week. 50 mg on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
2) HCG: 1050 UIs/week. 350 UI on Monday, Wed, and Fri
3) Arimidex : 0.125 mg on Monday, Wednesday, and Fri
4) Along with DHEA, Iodine, and Selenium supplementation.

I think the Testosterone and HCG dosages are a bit high . I asked the Doctor why the dosage was that high. He said my Test levels were at rock bottom and this what he would prescribe to someone who has these lab test results.

I am not saying I know more than the doctor. I just do not want to start with too much too soon.

Should I just stick to what the doctor said? Do you guys think I should start with 100 mg/week of Test and 500 UIs/week of HCG instead? Then work my way up?

Also, due to my SBGH being low. Should I be pinning ED or only 3 times per week like the doctor suggested?

I am pulling those dosages out of the thin air. Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks in advance.

How much did you pay for this Defy protocol in total? How much will you pay for random advice here? If you change your defy protocol and it does not work who do you blame?

Your protocol is a standard protocol Defy recommends. It is a great starting point and with your next consult they will be able to tune you in further. If you don’t follow their advice and you do something else what in the hell will Defy base their protocol changes on. Do you plan on lying to them?
How do you expect their treatment to work if you don’t follow their directions.

There aren’t many guys willing to commit to injecting daily starting out, this likely won’t be the same dosage you’re on in 6-12 months, you will likely need some tweaking to get it right whether it’s less or more. I’m assuming a M/W/F protocol was chosen do to having low SHBG, which isn’t too far off from an EOD protocol.

Adding HCG almost always sets the tone for adding an AI since HCG usually increases estrogen, but fertility is obviously important.

I have noticed the guys that seem to have the most problems are those who second guess everything, they don’t trust their doctors or themselves and always seem to make the wrong moves and eventually quit TRT inside 12 months.

“Should I do this, shouldn’t my doctor be doing this instead of that, isn’t this better”. You will fail TRT is this is what’s going on inside your head, I guarantee it.

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I was just asking for some opinions guys. Nothing more.

I plan on just following the treatment the doctor provided. I just wanted to see if anything seemed outlandish since it is my first go at this.

But it seems to good. Cool. Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it.

Wow great answer. No one knows how you will respond to TRT. Defy has to start someplace.
Understand that getting tuned in usually takes 2,3,4 protocol adjustments over months not weeks.
If you do exactly what they say you will get there faster than messing around.

In time when you know how all of this works with (((your body))) you can play around in fact talk with them at that time get their advice. You will be surprised how many times you hear yes sure go ahead and try that but watch how for these symptoms.

Don’t lie to these folks they have heard and seen it all.

Your blood work is similar to mine. I had 185 and 3.5 free t. Superb low. I suffered for 8 weeks keeping my dose low. .

Nothing was working and I felt worse. I then realized my e2 stayed low and was having those side effects. My new doc raised me to 200 a week and I immediately better.

So yes do what they gave you. Get out of this hole. Don’t worry about high levels.

The clinic wanted me on ai as well and I said no. My e2 is already low why should I start ai off the start.

Try out cypionate at 150 a week. Add the hcg it is icing on the cake. Jsut watch out for the sides. I would be worried taking an ai with the first week.

You are completely right man. I know this is going to be a process that will take time. I just had to be reminded to be patient and this is a long learning process.

I really do appreciate your response man. Thanks.

I will 100% follow the protocol as the Doctor laid out. Then see where I am in 3 months.

I will let you guys know how it going along the way.

Thanks again!

Interesting. I am definitely going to stick to what they gave me and see how I respond. Thanks for responding with your experience.

The AI dosage is pretty low; I do not think my estrogen levels will crash too soon. We will see where they are 8-12 weeks.

This is poison. I took .1 and it sucked horribly. Headaches and etc. the ai doesn’t even stop the e2 created by hcg.

Defy is the clinic of a few guys here. I’m susrprised there not telling you how crazy it is to just start popping ai with an e2 this low. My clinic said the same thing. It’s a low dose… weeks later my e2 has barely budged on cypionate 140mg per week and 400iu two days before bloods… if I had taken an ai I would of crashed.

At this time You don’t even know how your body will manage or create e2. Maybe you stay at a good range without taking an ai. Maybe you need an ai. The end goal is to not take an ai for life. Do yourself that favor and look into the other posts around here where folks say “stay away from ai”. Maybe there not telling you because there sick of explaining this.

This ai negatives are real. It’s bad for you. I personally don’t want to be stuck taking poison for the next 30 years on trt. The whole reason one starts TRT is to be healthy.

Your body created T naturally. It managed the e2 naturally. You didn’t need an ai. If you replace to a healthy level your body should manage e2
Levels with ease.

With this you need to eat right, have fitness ; sleep right; and lose fat. Without all that one has trouble managing trt for long term.

Food for thought.

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Your estrogen is already crashed. Your heart and bbone health are already in question. People feel like they have the flu or are severely depressed with sub 20 e2.

Agree with the above posts. Don’t take the AI. Everything else looks good.

The regulars in this forum know my take. And I get slammed that defy does not give ai initially. BS. I see it over and over.

I also think it’s a mistake to start someone that had low t at 150. Should be 100. And I would not start with dhea. I do not like the protocol

This protocol benefits the pockets of defy and empower
Are they shipping you all that including dhea?

BTW your dhea s was perfectly fine in your lab. You don’t need it.

When you start someone who was low with 150 AND HCG yeah your e2 will most likey shoot high at least initially. I just don’t know why the fuck they do this. It’s like it justifies the ai

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I will definitely consider this. Thanks for sharing your experience. I will do some more research on the web and on this forum.

I have researched the terrible long term effects of AIs. I might lay off it for the first few weeks or just only use it when I feel high estrogen side effects.

We will see soon. I need to do more research.

Thanks again for your reply man. I did not think about it like this .

Sure np. Take charge of your health by educating yourself.

Keep in mind you will have plenty of symtoms for the first month or two. Most of not all will subside.

This is bull shit. I Smell it from here. This is more of a reason to start with less. What a shock it will be to your system.

So the lower your testosterone is the more t you should inject as a protocol. Bs

Defy seems like any other place. Difference is they give you the meds. Other than that you basically need to dictate your protocol to them. And question everything. Or else it appears this is their standard one that I’ve seen posted many times.

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I thought the same thing. Defy “told” you to do this? Interesting.

By looking at the lipid profile it would seem more likely the OP is overweight and is expected to aromatise quite a lot. Sure I personally over-respond to AI’s it doesn’t mean the OP will be an over-responder.

You will always here those who have bad experiences with AI’s trash talk them, but the guys who take AI and feel fine, well you won’t hear from them because there not seeking help on the forums.

These AI’s are used for a short amount of time until weight is lost, then you wean off them. A .125mg dosage is tiny, it’s not like the normal 1mg tablets we are used to seeing.

@charlie12 see where you are coming from man. I appreciate you looking out. I thought the dosages were high too at first. I wanted to start with less too. But let’s see how my body responds.

Also, I did not have many options. I went to several Urologists and Endos who would not prescribe me due to my age.

Also, I got the supplements in #4 off Amazon (Defy gave recommends of companies to buy off there). Not through the Defy.

Everything in that package only costs me $350 for 3 months supply worth of Test Cyp, HCG, Arimidex, needles, syringles, etc.

I did pay $600 between the labs and the consultation. But it definitely does not break the bank for me. So even if they are overcharging me, it is way better then these other bullshit anti aging clinics in my area that want to charge me a $2000 consultation and $200/month membership fee. That did not include the drugs.

So far I am happy with the prices. Plus if the dosage is too high, I will find out through my bloodwork. Right now, I just care about getting healthy and improving my cardiovascular system.

Let’s see what happens. Why do you not like the DHEA though? I am just curious.

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Your dhea s is 375. Perfect. Adding dhea is just something else that may increase your e2 too much.

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I think these defy guys jsut want money. Over complicate shut and make as much monthly revenue as possible.