T Nation

TRT or Hcg


#1

'seems' that I need to make a decision between the two, one or the other. Any recommendations. 55yrs. ,5'11" , 245 lbs . Insulin type ll and had a stent put in last October. Heart is clear . Bp good. Some ED. BW okay otherwise.

0 minutes agoDetails

12 /12/14 will have new blood work this month 5 /16/15

Labs to be done before you start TRT
-LH and FSH [LH/FSH] .........
-TT
-FT or bio-T 46.0 ........
-E2 46.9. ........
-Prolactin [optional in most cases] .........4.8
-DHT [sort of a waist of time and blood if your testosterone levels are low]
-PSA ,,,,,,,, specific,,,, 0.2. ,,',,,,,0.0 -4.0
Here is some of what I have asked for or doctors have recommended: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  • Chemistry Panel (Metabolic panel with lipids
    Chol. 237,,,,,, non fast. ,,,,130-200
    Triglipd. ,,,',,,216. <200
    Hdlc 37. ,,,,,,,,, 40 -65
    Ldl. 157. < 130
    Nonhdl. ,,,,,,,200. ',,,',,,,,,,,,,,,,,<190
    Vldl. 43. Cor. 6.4. ,,,,,,,,, 2.0-5.0

    Test 3 ',,,,,,,,vitd 30 ng. 30 - 100

Testosterone. ,,,,,,,,,,, 319. Ng/ ....... 240 250 - 1100

  • Complete Blood Count (CBC) ,,,,,,
    Na ,,,,,,,135mmol/l 135 -145
    K ,,,,,,,,,, 4.0
    CL. ,,,,,,,,,,, 101 memos. ,,,',,,
    Co2 ,,,,,,,,23 ,,,,,,22- 32
    Glu 206,,,,,,,,,,,74- 118
    Bun 15 ,,,,,, 6-23
    Creat ,,,,0.9,,,,,,0.5,,,,,1.2
    Gfr. 60> 60
    Bcr. 17,,,,,6-25
    Alb. 4.4,,,,,3.4- 5.2
    Ast. ,,,15. ,,,,,,0-43
    Alt. ,,,,,23. ,,,,,,0- 65

Hematocrit ,,,,,47 ,,,,,,,,,, 37. - 51.0
* Free Testosterone
* Total Testosterone (<500 is not good. 700-1000 is good)
* DHEA-S - Sulfate (low DHEA = increased risk of cardio complications + DHEA converts to T)
* Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
* Estradiol
* Homocysteine
.* C-reactive protein ,,,,2.92 .....0.80-3.10 ......(,,,,,,,,,High sensitivity) - (high = cardio risk)
.* TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) -,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,0.89uiu. 0.35-5.5,,,,,, not that important. It is inaccurate and too many doctors use it as the holy grail; T4/T3 numbers are more important.
[

  • Total T4
    .+ Free T4 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ft4 1.19ng/dl. .0.89-1.76,,,,,,,,,

  • Total T3

  • Free T3
  • Reverse T3 (excess T4 converts to RT3. High RT3 blocks free T3 - so your TSH and T3 numbers could look great, but are blocked by RT3 and you feel like @$#!)
  • Thyroglobulin Antibodies
  • Thyroid Peroxidase

  • Cortisol (low cortisol = low overall cellular functions)

  • LH (low LH = pituitary disfunction causing hypogonadism - need MRI to check for pituitary tumor)
  • FSH (same as above)
  • DHT (Dihydrotestosterone)
  • SHBG
  • IGF-1 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor) (indicator of Human Growth Hormone <200 = not great)
  • Prolactin
  • Progesterone
  • Pregnenolone (precursor of Cortisol, DHEA, and Progesterone + Preg resolves brain fog and improved memory)
  • VITAMIN B12
  • Vitamin D, 25-OH Total (should be 70-100 I think - almost everyone is deficient)
  • Vitamin D, 25-OH D3

  • Ferritin (critical for cellular function - low ferritin = low transport capability of hormones, etc.)

  • Iron, Total Binding Capacity
  • Iron, Binding Capacity
  • Magnesium, RBC (is important for cellular energy (ATP) production)

Rbc ,,,,,,,, 5.31. 5.31 ,,,,,,,,,,,, 4.14 - 5.80
Wbc ',,,,,,,',,, 8.71. 3.4. ,,,,,,,,,,,,, 10.8


#2

[quote]Babababoo wrote:
‘seems’ that I need to make a decision between the two, one or the other. Any recommendations. 55yrs. 245 lbs . Insulin type ll and had a stent put in last October. Heart is clear . Bp good. Some ED. BW okay otherwise. [/quote]

I was on TRT with gels or shots for thirteen years. I like shots better. For the past three months I have been on HCG because I want to have a kid soon.

I say if you want to have more kids and have secondary hypogonadism, go for HCG. If not, go for TRT.


#3

Thanks brick head! Thinking trt injections better ,moe satisfying too. Doc says at my age it maybe hard to restart the boys. Just started 100mg on seringe 10. Doc sees me 2weeks for some Ed due. To medicines bp and Echo.

Waist has gone from 36 to 40 ,just lost 5lbs, but in some ways muscle is there again! Do worry about hair loss, some one of the meds, past meds I hope , made the hair just a bit thin and flat, nuclear I thought. But, the skull shape is not great so I want to preserve if possible.

If there is a side effect I get it, sometimes I am lucky. Hcg I understand helps keep ones own t in circulation and feels better, plus less hair loss. Thinking to just do trt till October give the body a rest and see if there are any health improvements, get off some bp meds and then do Hcg to get things going again. Maybe if doc then would allow both I could continue on to regain ground I lost.
New here so always looking for input. J.


#4

How about you make life simple? Take the prescribed 100 mg T per week, get lab values, make sure things are OK, and then stay on it forever.

It never ceases to amaze me how men make this shit so complicated, even when things are going fine! They want to add and change drugs. They are concerned about the minor side effects (some of which I think is just hypochondriasis). They want to change their dosing schedule when things are fine.

Why would you want to stop TRT, “get things going”, and then go on HCG when you have no interest in fertility? If you want to do that, fine. But I don’t get it. What is “giving the body a rest”?


#5

So let me get this right , if I think like Larry king at the moment you are telling me not to have any more children. I am not eligible for pm so please keep the flaming light… I should walk around with raisins for ever! Not only that but have free radicals move in. How will things keep going? Will there be any volume, no! That’s the only ride I got left! Shi… I looked pretty good at 50 , wish I believed it was all over then. But, I think your right; just do the t forever … Jump!


#6

[quote]Babababoo wrote:
So let me get this right , if I think like Larry king at the moment you are telling me not to have any more children. I am not eligible for pm so please keep the flaming light… I should walk around with raisins for ever! Not only that but have free radicals move in. How will things keep going? Will there be any volume, no! That’s the only ride I got left! Shi… I looked pretty good at 50 , wish I believed it was all over then. But, I think your right; just do the t forever … Jump![/quote]

OK, OK, you’re right. Sorry for being curt.

Dude, either one is a way to go. Or you can do TRT with a low dose of HCG, say 250 IU every other day, to keep your nads intact.

I didn’t say don’t have anymore children. I wrongfully assumed you don’t want more.

Again, sorry (seriously).


#7

Ty for the reply. Some days my dyslexia gets in the way too! Looking at cycling and volume too?


#8

I have to start at the beginning. Your diet is almost certainly crap. Judging from the lipid panel, you’re eating a bunch of refined carbs and much too little ‘real’ food. I don’t care if you go with a Paleo, Adkins, Mediterranean or Vegetarian/Vegan approach. Any of them will push your towards eating real food. Get your weight and diet under control and put together some sort of workout regimen. After that is sorted, then you should consider some T and/or HCG.


#9

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
    – note first paragraph

On TRT you will need hCG anyways. hCG works well for some young guys, but often not well for older men.


#10

Thank you for your help here.

Light hair everywhere , more on chest , has thinned a bit,. No testicular aches during a cold except a few hours perhaps but no fever. Hair on head changed exactly when the stent was put in , thinner , finer, flat and now it is straight. Was it the nuc test?. Read plavix can do it?

I did just add some new figures especially at the beginning of blood work, a few. Got them over the phone from urologist med assistant. Just had second injection of T, don’t know what brand but it said 10 mg so 100 units? Gel gave me the gutters?

Any way I think that was really good advice to get any diet plan. It is true , that I can’ t wrap my head around it all. Been much better the past 6 mo. But as soon as there is a disaster at least two a month and always the end of the month when I submit my hours my blood a1c goes up 100 points +/-, it’s family so I can’t do much about it. Caused a stent too ,possibly congenital, glucose intolerance may have been a contributor .

Vitamins: MV, biotin, melatonin, alpha lipoid acid, d3, ginkgo , k2, magnesium, +/-.
Medicines: aspirin, niacin?, clopidogrel, carvidiolo, Losartan,?, mexiletine, insulin pens.
Meds give me no energy! Pains too.

  1. Drs this week! I am going nuts! But, getting better at it at times! Never been sick before. Doc said blockage is fixed you are fine, 6 mo ago. These meds are going to kill me at this point. It’s a fine line I know. Just did a no, no. Got off Losartin … Can see clearer, breath better, nose and pollen. If I live through the night, I will take one tomorrow AM. Because waiting for an okay!

The stent was a walk in the park , a marvel of science, everything worked fine ED too; then others ,they started dumping truck loads of medicines at me and zillions of gadgets. 3 mo. Of that and one week of communication break down and was lucky to find someone else seamlessly, now 7mo later.

If I keep at my glucose with tight mgmt. weight comes on rapidly but, my levels are good, unless stress disasters, common allergy, cold flu, and it takes days to lower it. Weight or not lowering a1c is one goal. Another one might be a gym once t kicks in . Presently I get one thing done and I need tooth pics to keep my eyes open , but , I can usually research things ,read, light house work, you should see this dump , any help welcome .


#11

OH, any decent PL gyms in the greater Salem, MA area? Will start on machines again to get a base but, don’t expect more than moderately heavy unless, fluid motion and warmed up! Music but, no talking. Open to anything really?


#12

[quote]Babababoo wrote:
OH, any decent PL gyms in the greater Salem area? Will start on machines again to get a base but, don’t expect more than moderately heavy unless, fluid motion and warmed up! Music but, no talking. Open to anything really?[/quote]
Google it.

There are 26 places named Salem in the US alone.


#13

Salem, MA


#14

[quote]KSman wrote:
Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
    – note first paragraph

On TRT you will need hCG anyways. hCG works well for some young guys, but often not well for older men.[/quote]

Just added some lab works. Temp usually hovers around low 97.1 AM to 97.3 5p. Will keep an eye on it . Have seen 98.6 before.