TRT Not Working

Those would be the ones on the internet, not in the rest of the world.

Come on systemlord, going with the “not paying attention” again? If I am reading your posts, and responding, does that not indicate I am paying attention? I just think sometimes you are wrong. I suggest you get to a gym and check it out on your own.

You stated this previously and I really wish you didn’t again. Someone looks stupid, or worse. If your guy told you this then he is either very old, or has failed to keep his patients under his care, or lying. I just looked him up, he is not old, graduated from medical school in 2008, internet stated he’s been in practice 6-10 years. Let’s do some math.

If the doctor works 40 hours a week, for 50 weeks, that’s 2000 hours a year. Let’s say he manages 1000 patients, which I believe is possible. If he spends two hours during the year working with each one, on average, that’s the 2000 hours. You tell me, when you were a patient, how much time did you spend on the phone with you? Apart from phone time, there is time reviewing labs, signing prescriptions, documenting patient progress and phone conversations, talking with staff, etc. What about new patients, those starting will need additional time than the regular follow-ups would.

So, if he has had 10,000, that would be 1000 new ones a year. I think, I hope anyway, you can see the inaccuracy in that claim. Even if it could be true, most would have to quit care. If he kept half of them active, that means what, 24 minutes a year on each? Seriously? Quality care? Do some math on the financialS too, $ee if that $eems rea$onable. Anyway, I’m calling BS.

Once again, you are a special snowflake. You’re right sometimes, and sometimes your advice saves guys, but you tend to put everyone into your oversensitive, fluctuating levels, bucket and that is just not the way it is. Talk to a GP prescribing twice monthly dosing. He’ll tell you most of his patients are very happy.

By the way, I’ll throw this in. Pain management physician I know, taking 200mg every two weeks. Does not feel good. He doubles it to 400mg every two. Feels good for three-four days. Told him to take the 400mg and get labs seven days post injection. Total test in the high 300s, SHBG………wait for it……….5! Told him to take 400mg every two weeks, but split it to four 100mg doses. At 3.5 day trough, total test 800s, feels great. See, I am not opposed to more frequent dosing. Certainly works for some. Meanwhile, said doctor thinks I’m a genius since he has not felt this good in years. Now look at the guy who had SHBG of 3 taking 200mg once a week. His trough numbers are roughly the same as the other guy.

What? Where did I say that? He’s just starting. He has plenty of options once determining whatever he is doing is not working. I do not think he is there yet.

Systemlord, always fun putting some oil and vinegar on the salad.

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I didn’t start benefiting from TRT until I started keeping my hormones more steady, the fluctuations nullified the effects of TRT, so even though my free hormones were supraphysiological, because my hormones were fluctuating too much, I didn’t feel all the benefits of TRT.

I’ve considered that and I am not sure. A large number of TRT guys are previous AAS users. They tend to have lower SHBG levels.

If you have anything published, I would like to see it. I know, a lot of anectodical stuff here.

Most of what we are talking about is anecdotal evidence.

Systemlord, what did you feel like on higher doses?

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We agree…!

Extremely aggressive, amped up to high levels, unstoppable. I’m actually very calm on 7mg daily, I’m the guy breaking up the fights and mediating instead of causing fights. A 25mg EOD protocol is what caused me to turn from Dr. jekyll to Mr. hyde.

The thing is I never felt that way, couldnt notice any change other than a little bit more muscle mass

Same here, I felt nothing other than increased muscle mass and body hair, didn’t feel any type of mental effect until switching to ED.

I tried ED injections at 140mg per week and I didn’t notice anything. I am now doing 120mg EOD and approaching 8 weeks. Still feel nothing. Tired, no drive, always looking for a place to sit down.

I’m sure for me there is something more going on like thyroid. I need to get my blood tested again.

I forgot to mention my SHBG increases on TRT, it doesn’t decline. I’ve been off TRT for almost 8 months and SHBG is 13, my SHBG was 22 after only 3 weeks at 7mg daily.

Im on week two with 160mg TC a week divided into 2 shots. SHBG of 22, So far I have had noticed that I dont want to wake up early to hit the gym. I have been sleeping in and doing 100 push ups instead. But I have been waking up feeling good and smiley with a strong desire for sex, which had faded about 3 months ago. I have noticed that Im finding mediocre women a little more attractive, which is hilarious to me. The hotter ones even more so. I have been getting more work done, and have more patience. I think hitting the gym at night is going to be a better option with how Im feeling. Im getting leaner all of a sudden Ive noticed. So not sure what to believe except that everyone is different. Currently, Im just gonna pretend that Im not reading any forums. In 3 weeks Ill be tested again and post my labs to see what changes have occurred. OP, are you working out? Are you overweight?

Yes I do agree to that. But if you take a look at the T fluctuation of healthy young men throughout the day you see also ups and downs with a difference between highest and lowest levels of up to 200 ng/dL. That’s what you would also have with once or twice weekly injections, agreeable on a different time scale then. But my point is that the body is used to see fluctuations of that magnitude.

Specifically to low SHBG. I am not sure if the only difference between low, medium and high SHBG men is the required amount of T per week is. For E2 control I am sceptical as to what extent daily or eod injections are able manage high values. At least for me there was absolutely no difference, but I don’t have any systematic data to back that up.
Daily or eod will reduce fluctuations and if you are sensitive to this then that’s absolutely fair enough to practice TRT in that way. But again that’s just my point of view not having any other data at hand.

@highpull

I’m inclined to agree with most of what you are saying, insults you have made aside of course.

I am a low SHGB guy and I am loving 200mg/week. I also feel significantly better with 1 -1.5 mg AI a week, I’m quite the rebble it seems.
I’m no expert in any of this, I am a mathematician whom works in neuroscience and this hormones shit is can give me a headache trying to figure out :frowning: . But basic math leads me to agree with you in terms of ester half life and how assumptions systemlord has made are a bit ridiculous.

Either way, all of this is from ancedotal evidence anyway and I think we would all agree that it would be nice for more legitimate studies to be done all together in regards to trt.

How are you dosing? EOD?

@makeithappen7 assuming you are talking to me, I dose everyday currently. Not for reasons systemlord uses, I just simply like it, finally got over self injections and I guess I’m weirdly proud of myself and decided to poke daily. Haven’t noticed any benefits yet. Keep in mind I’ve only been on 200mg/week for a month ish now.

Could you give me an example of an insult? I certainly do not wish to insult anyone. I know things can come across in print in unintended ways sometimes.

Regarding “rebbie”, I would not say so. Certainly not with the 200mg a week. As for the aromatase inhibitor, there are plenty still using them, and doing well. There are still TRT clinics which will always prescribe them as part of the standard protocol. Only those patients protesting would not get one. Guys that have been on TRT for several years still use them, since they always have. I know guys who do not react well when E2 gets over 30, and others who are fine at 100.

Bottom line, you have found what works for you and you’re doing great, so whatever you are doing is right. But, you’re not alone with 200mg and 1.0-1.5mg AI. Far from it.

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So if the solution isnt daily injections, what would be? Cause is so strange that trt is not working even though im injecting 200/week

Other thing that I dont understand that maybe yall know is how is it that peak of testosterone is 24-48 hours since injected and trt effects start after 3 weeks? Shouldnt u feel it 24-48 hours after?

Tho The hypothesis is that low SHBG causes much greater swings. The biology makes sense. But I haven’t seen studies on it. If I were one of the big hormone clinics I’d want to start testing some of these parameters. It wouldn’t be too difficult to develop a fingerprint best starting protocol based on some of the major parameters like thyroid, SHBG, Etc. Eventually it might just be a regression of bloodwork plus a DNA test vs a basket of protocols including all the variations of injection frequency, HCG or no HCG, Preg/DHEA or Not. This game of starting everyone on the same broken protocol then tweak causes many men to drop out. It’s bad for business.