T Nation



After feeling down and sluggish, low libido for some time I was diagnosed and started TRT in december 2012.My level was about 330 at 35 years old. I started on 1cc test cyp 200mg every 2 weeks. after a few months and a follow up visit dosage was upped to 1cc every week. My libido did improve and a little better since of well being. After finding tnation I realized my doc was not testing everything necessary and went back with info but she was unwilling to test or treat E2 so I moved on. I finally had a more informative blood panel done.

GLUCOSE 101 RANGE 65-101

FREE T3 3.1 NORMAL 2.3- 4.2
FREE T4 .89 NORMAL .73-1.95
E2 49 NORMAL <63
TSH 2.7 NORMAL .5-4.7
PSA .5 NORMAL <4.0
vitamin d 23 low optimal range 30-100

Test taken 7 days after injection.
Doc didnt see me after visit , practitioner did. She said my levels were spiking too high and I needed to split dosage.Said E2 levels were ok and would actually drop some when i lowered dosage. Also she told me to give blood to lower hematocrit.she told me to take .5cc on mon and thursday, again seemed to make sense, also help with acne on shoulders.

through it all i havent felt great. Better, at times but not often or steady.I really think my e2 may be too high but not sure. I just want to feel happy and alive again. I was hoping for some advice from some of the very knowledgable guys here.And feel free to ask if you want more info, I shared what I thought was relevant but have more details if needed. Thanks for your time!


Your e2 could be causing you issues however feeling well is very general and many things influence well being. The best thing would be to wean yourself off testosterone and see what the root cause of your low testosterone was/is. Perhaps you need t replacement, but most people do not.


can anyone at least recommend a reputable doctor in the Lafayette la area? I did talk to one in Baton rouge who recommended pellets but you guys seem to not care for them much. thanks and good luck to everyone


Is there a reason the doctor needs to be local? I go through a HRT/TRT facility in Florida but live in snowy New England. I pay all out of pocket, but labs were fairly complete and reasonable cost and I did talk to the doctor before they tried to offer me everything they compound; but it is a bit like a menu and you can only order what you want.


BTW, I think the recommendation to drain off a pint of blood is a good one. Your hematocrit is quite high and will come down when your body makes a fresh pint. In fact you might need to repeat the process again in a couple months to get it back down somewhere more reasonable. Just find a red cross donation center, they always need blood and your feel better. At those high levels your blood is ‘thick’ and more difficult for your body to circulate it.


I did look at the online option some but dont know which ones are any good. I was actually looking at one in boston.Let me know which one you recommend.Thanks


I did give blood and was hoping that would help with fatigue, but no change. I will be doing bloodwork again to see how things are but I will probably order one online, its so damn expensive even with insurance. Do you think my E2 is too high?


I’m relatively new to the forum as well (and in a simiilar macro state) so my best advice would be to read the stickies in the forum (esp the one on estriodial), there is also a person on the forum call KSman. He seems to be very knowledgable and it would be best to get his input. You can make him aware you need his input by placing a post in his thread pointing to yours (see below). That is just my two cents.


Regarding the phembotomy, dumping the blood at your level is just the right thing to do, I didn’t think it would help with the fatigue but will help prevent a stoke or other heart related issue.


Your hematocrit wasn’t ridiculously high. It was just 0.2 over the upper limit. Less red blood cells = less oxygen carrying capacity. I agree when hematocrit gets too high, you should donate blood. Viscous blood isn’t good in a chronic state. But don’t forget that guys like Lance Armstrong doped with Erythropoetin and/or infused RBCs, sending their hematocrit higher so that they could carry more O2 in their bloodstream to fuel their muscles. Low RBC / hematocrit = anemia, which will cause fatigue.

My dad had a GI bleed years ago and his hemoglobin was down to 6. After that, he never recovered his stamina or endurance for work or exercise even after he got his Comprehensive Blood Count back to normal. My point is, donating blood shouldn’t make you feel better other than the fuzzy feeling that you are helping someone in the future who’s life is on the line. Donating blood will decrease your exercise capacity, oxygen carrying capacity, and can make you feel more fatigued for a few days to a few weeks. Just my 2 cents there.

You’re saying your Total Testosterone level was 897 ng/dl 7 days after an injection? That’s really high! I wonder what your levels were at their peak a day or two after your injection. Must have been really high, which means your E2 levels were probably higher earlier in the week also. 7 days after your injection, your E2 levels are still high, eventhough under the “normal” range. I bet some of what you are feeling is from high E2 levels being converted from all the surplus testosterone in your system early in the week.

Some other thoughts of things that might be going on with you include: possible Obstructive Sleep Apnea. Insomnia issues? What’s your life stress like right now? Diet: Gluten or lactose intolerance? Seasonal Affective Disorder? (depending on where you live. Maybe you need some light / sun / get outside. Depression? If it’s not high testosterone converting to surplus E2, than it could be something extraneous, 'cuz the rest of your labs look very good. Kudos on the cholesterol and triglycerides levels.


[quote]XLR8MyLife wrote:

My dad had a GI bleed years ago and his hemoglobin was down to 6.

That is low and would, under normal conditions (3:1 ratio), equate to a hematocrit of ~18 just for comparison. I find that dumping a pint (actually a 500ml bag) drops my crit 2-4 points and assuming you have decent iron stores it will start heading back up. That is just for me, for other reasons I keep my crit less than 43 and usually suffer no really affects (other than the day of/after the draw) in cardio. As this is from someone that does the kinda cardio that people here usually disapprove of…(e.g. run for 5 miles)

I some ways, and this might be me seeing the silver lining, I think that training with lower crit has benefited me in some cases. I’ve never had issues at altitude (also made sure I was not donating at just prior either) and that could me do to the fact my body was trained to deal with slightly less circulating oxygen from time to time.


I do have a rough schedule. I’m up at 3am for work. I usually get about 6 hours sleep and usually a nap after work or im useless.too tired to do anything.I can leave work on a beautiful day and be ready to go and 15 minutes on the drive home I’m done, need a nap. I did think about sleep apnea, my wife says I sleep well?little snoring and no gasping .even on a week of vacation with plenty of rest I had to take a nap. I used to hate naps! I am on vitamin d3 and dha/epa since October and no change.