T Nation

TRT - How Can I Milk the System

I’m 32 and just tested at 272 Testosterone. Everything else was normal except for low White Blood Count.

My Doctor prescribed TRT (Testim 50g @ 1% Every Day) about 2 weeks ago. Wow

Strength up
Muscle definition up
Waist size down
Mood improving
Sex drive improving

All with inconsistant diet and exercise.

My question to veterans of TRT is How can I rig my next Test so that my Doc will up my dosage (or at least not back me off what I’m on now)? He only want to get me to about 450-500 I’d like to be at 800-1000.

With the Testosterone cream it is stored in the skin and slowly released. Can I “forget” to apply it for a few days leading up to my test? What other options are there?

Any advice welcome.

Hey Dogwitch,

I was on both Androgel and Testim at one time and neither one got my levels high enough, around 460-540ng. I didn;t like either, its a bitch when you apply during summer, its sticky and you hve to wait if you want to go swimming. I also had an absorption problem so I went with Test Depo shots (200mg) every 8 days. My test levels are now coming in at 870-900.

I do have my E2 check on a regular basis because as you test levels rise so does your estrogen level, which can be a killer. So I take Gaspari Novadex-XT (Anti-Estrogen product) that seems to help. Hopoe this helps.

Dog,
Thats actually a respectable dose of Testim. At that dose, you should continue to see gains and improvements.

I would expect your T level to get up in the 600’s or higher. That is plenty, trust me. At that range you will benefit from all the things that higher T brings while keeping aromatization into estrogen reasonably at bay(best to get a test for E2)

Either way, more T cream is not always better.

it’s easy to rig you next test(if you do some searching there is a post about that, from around 2 yrs ago)first go on one hell of a drunk, and lay off the sleep.both will lower test.there’s more but my memory fails me right now.

Here you go.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/features/your_doctor_your_dealer&cr=

Yes I am aware that drinking, tons of cardio and a lack of sleep will reduce my natural Test production. But would it do crap for the extraneous Test from the Testim? My fear is that I go into this follow up test and come out above 600 and he drops my dose.

If I was just Joe Schmoe who sat on his couch drinking beer a level of 400 would be fine. However, I am 32 and extremly active (both heavy lifting and Rugby). I would like the higher levels of Test in order to help me reach my physical goals and improve recovery.

After 8 years of being Hamstrung with undiagnosed Low Testosterone I want a higher level than my doctor is comfortable with. Not necessarily supraphysilogical levels but definantly high normal levels.

Does anyone have any other pointers besides beer, cardio & loss of sleep?

What effect would skipping last 1-2-3 days dose before the test have on my levels?

Anyone else been in this situation?

Considering the short half life of the gels/creams, if you stop completely the doctor will figure you out. BUT, if you were to lower your dosage by 20 to 30% for the few days leading up to your test, you will come in lower than “expected” and maybe the doc will give you more. Just remember if you short dose for one blood test you will have to short dose for every single test after that one as well. If you have a great memory, go for it just don’t ever forget you rigged the first test…
It’s way easier if you get on shots to predict dosage (for me anyway). I know within 5 percent what my b/w will be on the day they draw my blood. I have a way cool doctor, and as long as I don’t “fail” the test by being over 1000ng on testing day, all is well for me.
I hope this helps. Good luck.

It took me about a year and a half to convince my doctor that I was probably high-normal when my testicles worked.

(I was not “milking the system” – it is actually true).

I felt like crap until my levels got up in the 800s.

KNB nailed it. I’ll add a wrinkle by recommending that you get a few blood tests under your belt first so you’ll know with certainty how your body is reacting. Then start tapering down as falling T levels is not that uncommon for guys on T for a while (given that most doctors are clueless about aromatase issues).

Enjoy the TRT “honeymoon” while you have it. Without the three pronged approach of T+AI+hCG it isn’t likely to last very long, especially if you start upping the dosage.

[quote]e-loo wrote:
It took me about a year and a half to convince my doctor that I was probably high-normal when my testicles worked.

(I was not “milking the system” – it is actually true).

I felt like crap until my levels got up in the 800s.[/quote]

Please check the “get your damn blood test” thread in this forum. There is a vast amount of good reasoning as to why no man should ever wait to have his first blood panel done.

Disclaimer: I started the thread, but there are so many knowledgeable posts in there from many smarter than I am it makes a great read.
KNB

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
KNB nailed it. I’ll add a wrinkle by recommending that you get a few blood tests under your belt first so you’ll know with certainty how your body is reacting. Then start tapering down as falling T levels is not that uncommon for guys on T for a while (given that most doctors are clueless about aromatase issues).

Enjoy the TRT “honeymoon” while you have it. Without the three pronged approach of T+AI+hCG it isn’t likely to last very long, especially if you start upping the dosage.[/quote]

OP: listen to what this man is saying. Right now, your balls are getting the message to stop making T. You need ALL THREE of T+AI+HCG, or wave bye-bye to all you said.

Most docs are horseshit. They will NEVER prescribe those, unless you go to a very expensive anti-aging clinic. You’ll simply have to buy international.

If I ever get busted, I’ll have a lot to say to any judge, that’s for sure.

God, I hate doctors!!!

Thank you Happydog and Headhunter for your response.

Yes, Idealy I would want T+AI+HCG but currently my Doc just wants me on the lowest dose cream to see how I react.

The current plan is to retest and check my levels after 6-8 weeks. I am concerned about Estrogen conversion, shutdown of my natural production and long term viability of just being on the cream. My Doc’s concern is just to get me up to about 450 T and make sure my Hemocrit doesn’t rise too high. But in my doctors defense he is 100% better than my last Doc who told me it was all in my head.

I am sure that he will work with me to test any hormone levels from here on out. He is just taking the easy path at the moment by starting me on the lowest dose and see how I respond.

[quote]dogwitch wrote:
Thank you Happydog and Headhunter for your response.

Yes, Idealy I would want T+AI+HCG but currently my Doc just wants me on the lowest dose cream to see how I react.

The current plan is to retest and check my levels after 6-8 weeks. I am concerned about Estrogen conversion, shutdown of my natural production and long term viability of just being on the cream. My Doc’s concern is just to get me up to about 450 T and make sure my Hemocrit doesn’t rise too high. But in my doctors defense he is 100% better than my last Doc who told me it was all in my head.

I am sure that he will work with me to test any hormone levels from here on out. He is just taking the easy path at the moment by starting me on the lowest dose and see how I respond.

[/quote]

Allopaths are, by definition, insane. They will dismiss HCG and AI for men as ‘voodoo’ science, despite the stack of studies you pulled out of top of the line journals. They see the evidence but look away, afraid of being sued or just too plain stupid to figure it out.

I hope the cream and other such nonsense works for you. Many have success. I did not. So, I simply buy what I need and fuck the doctors.

[quote]dogwitch wrote:
Thank you Happydog and Headhunter for your response.

Yes, Idealy I would want T+AI+HCG but currently my Doc just wants me on the lowest dose cream to see how I react.

The current plan is to retest and check my levels after 6-8 weeks. I am concerned about Estrogen conversion, shutdown of my natural production and long term viability of just being on the cream. My Doc’s concern is just to get me up to about 450 T and make sure my Hemocrit doesn’t rise too high. But in my doctors defense he is 100% better than my last Doc who told me it was all in my head.

I am sure that he will work with me to test any hormone levels from here on out. He is just taking the easy path at the moment by starting me on the lowest dose and see how I respond.

I too have have hemocrit issues. I have to watch my numbers as I am prone to elevated blood pressure. My doc “suggests” I donate a whole pint as often as possible to keep my red cell count in range.

He also informs me it’s good for the old antibody cells to get drained off and new healthy ones have a place to flourish. He said never donate what are called “doubles” at the blood bank. It might work for you too.

It’s nice to carry extra oxygen, but if my blood is a thick as syrup, it defeats the purpose…

[/quote]

First, I would see a new doctor. If the normal range is 241-827ng/dl (I believe that is correct) then who is he to tell you that you should only be in the 500 range?

He knows your active lifestyle and should try to get you into the upper tier. It’s not like he’ll go to jail for prescribing medication to get you into the upper side of “normal”.

Second, he won’t prescribe you any AI’s or help with any type of PCT. (I tried that as well). In his mind (and to the medical board and insurance companies) he should not be prescribing breast cancer (nolvadex) or female fertility medication (clomid) to a 32-year-old man who has no symptoms of breast cancer and has no chance of getting pregnant.

Regardless of the fact that it may have a dual purpose in blocking estrogen. As far as PCT goes, he won’t supply you with anything for that because he’s not viewing anything you are doing as a “cycle.” You are getting replacement therapy and won’t be coming off.

If it were me, and it was me a few weeks ago, I’d look into Anti-Aging clinics. Those doctors are well aware of the situation and know exactly what you’ll need as far as anti-estrogen, aromatase inhibitors, and will prescribe HCG as to keep most of your natural production of testosterone and keep the boys swinging low in the hammock.

Edit: Next time, also take the latest appointment of the day. Testosterone levels are generally higher in the morning. By going later in the day, you’ll show a lower level than if you were the 1st appointment.