T Nation

TRT + Herbal/Natural T-Boosters. KSman Input Please


#1

Hi, to anyone with knowledge but we all know that KSman have a deep scientific knowledge of HRT/TRT, so his input would be greatly appreciated.

The question is simple, would (or only some) all herbal/natural supplements proven to increase testosterone would still work (increase of T, lower/control E, keeps the testis working...) on top of the benefits of exogenous testosterone.

I read online (must be true, it's online) that some people use tamoxifen in conjunction of testosterone to keep their E2 controlled and keeps the testis working to some level.

From a website I regularly visit (ergo-log, a website that takes scientific studies and dumb down the results for the mentally challenged), that some herb/natural supplement will increase your natural production of testosterone/increase libido/keep testis working. Most of them works by stimulating the HPTA axis, at least that's what I understood. But from what I understand, exogenous testosterone, decrease and/or stop that natural production.

List includes but not limited to:
-Forksolin (from today's article)
-Ashwaghanda
-Fenugreek
-Vitamin D
-Royal Jelly
-Ginger
-Tongkat ali
-Maca
-Pendalium Forex
-...and many more just send tons of money to me and... (sorry trying to be funny...will keep my day job)

Hopefully the question is simple/easy to answer. Basically, if a little bit of T is good, more T (free T) could be better (for some) if all the other hormones are in check obviously. Also, if it helps to keep the 'boys' alive, it would be nice.


#2

There isn't a single question mark in your above post signifying what your question is. Are you trying to ask if there are herbal/"natural" supplements one can take while on TRT to keep your HPTA functioning as if one wasn't on TRT; i.e. keep LH & FSH numbers in range?


#3

In my opinion, you are chasing snake oil. I would stick with the standard protocol of a well dialed in T dose and an AI as necessary. Certain supps like ZMA, tribulus etc and probably not worth their purchase price if your diet is balanced but it couldn't hurt.


#4

Oops... trying to write the perfect question with all the variables included I forgot to formulate my question properly.

Will, someone one TRT using any proven herbal/natural supplement have any benefits?


#5

Unfortunately, AI doesn't keep the testis working. Also, some doctors/endoc don't understand much about what some people are trying to get. They (most) try to get you in a 'normal' range and we all know that normal doesn't necessarily means good.

Changing doctor is, in some case border line if not, impossible. Different country, different 'rules'.

-Tribulus (at least the terrestris type) doesn't work. Proven
-ZMA, helps to sleep, better sleep better production of T...but not, as far as I understand, a direct increase of T

Changing/increasing dosage of T, well without AI/SERMS in place won't help. Some docs/endoc don't even want to get in there...for whatever reasons.

Trying to understand (first) and possibly apply (second) what can help.

Usually, everything else being controlled in range, from what I understand, more free T means better life/results/muscle/libido/mental clarity...to a certain extend. Now, I'm not talking about using TRT + supplements to get the free T in the top 1% but just enough to be a little bit better.


#6

Your thinking is correct on the free T, but there just nothing out there that's proven to work. Yes I agree about tribulus, ZMA etc. I was just listing as a reference to popular supps that don't really do much. A well balanced diet high in omegas with good sleep will do you worlds of good over any natural supplement. Also, maintaining a slim waist line will do the same as excess fat increases E2. Everything else you mentioned... snake oil.


#7

Usually when the studies that are done by (or at least appeared in real scientific journals/pub meds) and have numbers that prove that they are indeed working (increase of T/free T, reduce/control E2, testis sizes, sperm production,...) I believe them until I have other reason not too. Using a scientific approach (ie control group vs experimental group) is what, I do believe, separate bro science/snake oil vs reality/facts/results.

Now some of them on that list may not have a huge (direct?) impact but they all have some sort of abilities to increase T, reduce E, Testis function.

Obviously, none of them will give you results as impressive as injecting, lets say 100mg of Test Enanthate/weekly but they have some other benefits. If they are good to keep (or at least help) the HPTA axis working, that could mean basically better results, whatever you the results you're looking for.

Could be someone just looking for an edge (on top of their TRT), a guy doing 'normal' cycles and want to recover better/faster/easier in between cycles or just a guy looking to keep his testis working better,...

Also, if we follow the 'rule' (well it isn't one really, I guess) of using smaller doses of different compounds vs using huge doses of one compound (ie weekly 500mg of test, 400 mg of Eq, 400mg masteron vs using 1,300mg of test E) most, usually, agree that the first 'cycle' is better than the later... But again everybody's body is different and react differently....

So, in retrospect a guy on TRT using 100mg/week of T and using some other supplement that would give him a boost of lets say 20% vs a guy using 120mg of test a week, I think the first would be better IF you have the other good side effects of the supplements (decrease/control of E2, testis working).

Some might just say F... it and use Test plus an AI (to keep E2 in check) plus hCG (to keep the testis working) but for some, it's not a viable option. For some getting TRT almost requires an act of God. Remember, different country, different rules...

I do appreciate your input.