T Nation

TRT For How Long?


#1

How long can you be on TRT without taking a break if you are over 40?

I have been on for 5 months and taking the following:

100mg test eth. 1x week
1000 units of HCG 1x week
.5mg of arimidex 3x week


#2

You never go off of TRT.

The HCG would be better spread out. Most docs seem to go with 250iu 2x/wk. 250iu eod might be better based on recent research.

If the cost of Arimidex is an issue, 1mg/wk is more of a typical TRT dose.


#3

KSman, you are always a great source of knowledge on this subject.

I've been on androgel (10g's - 2 packets) daily for the past 2 months, i have made a bit of progress but my joint are still clicking and sometimes painful. ED isn't fully cured either and i don't think i have E2 problems (i am very skinny with almost no body fat).

I am thinking about changing to either 100/150mg of Test E weekly (maybe 125mg weekly would be best) and doing HCG on day 6/7 at 250iu (SubQ). Would you recommend doing HCG on mon, wed and friday and skipping the weekend? What work's best for you?

I am 24 year's old and trying to get my libido and sex life back (not to mention health and well-being).

I am going in for another varicocele embolization (the first one didn't work right) and hoping to see some improvements afterwards and maybe not require TRT for life. I need to run HCG to see if my nut's go back to normal size though after the operation and everything is fixed down below.

Would be interested in hearing your opinion.


#4

Just because your skinny, young and have no bodyfat doesn't mean you won't have E2 problems. Im walking proof of this. I carry a 7%BF level and maintain a pretty high level of fitness - and my estradoil levels are elevated - 43(10-50). And Im about your age.

Proper hCG dosage is best depending upon the individual, however, scholarly artciles/studies(the few that are out there) have found best results following a EOD dosing schedule, 250IU. I would strive for that or either a every 3 day dose.

You may or may not return to decent T levels after surgery for variococle. Don't fear though - I think its a great idea to take care of health issues first and foremost(duh!). Obviously, you want to return to previous state and never have to take TRT drugs for another 20 years. But if not, don't be afraid to roll with it - Your reaping alot of benefits on TRT, willing your putting in the time/energy/money to make it work.


#5

I would just like to add a few more points - Don't fear the thought of being on TRT "forever". It is a constantly changing field. There are constant, new improvements always in motion. Ive seen some new studies taking part now that have new testosterone raising compounds that are in a pill - no need to inject or rub T in and no need for hCG. So who knows what the future holds.


#6

Special thanks for the replys guy's.

Very valid points here. I weighed myself today and i am 66kg (not sure what that is in stone?) so pretty underweight. Overall i am pretty happy with my build and body shape, no problems there.

Since being on TRT i have had improved mood but not muscles, joints or libido/erections. They still seem to suck big time. I can still get erections but a hell of allot of work is needed and it's annoying with my nut's being tight all the time (something HCG "should" fix).

I am really hoping i only need TRT short term. However i am not scared of using it long term. I think injections will be allot better though than gel's. Maybe 125/150mg of test e per week + HCG (250iu).

How is everyone else getting on with HRT? What do other's find best?


#7

For your weight and build, 100mg/wk of injected test [cyp|eth] may take you into the 800's of total T.

Your transdermal T has been increasing DHT which is good for libido and sexual function/response. Injected will have lower DHT in many cases. Transdermals also push up E levels compared to injections.

Your T levels might be quite high now with TD and the problem may be only the E levels.

If you have lost muscle, you can still be thin while having higher body fat percentage.

If you pre-TRT blood work showed elevated LH and FST from the hypothalamus and pituitary trying to get non-responsive testes to increase the T; then HCG in normal doses may not increase the size or T production of the testes. High LH levels are typical in most cases where the weak link in T production is the testes.

Otherwise, HCG can add T to the dosed amount and create a modest increase in T levels above that of TRT only.

I would get your E levels checked. If in the mid-high portion of the lab ranges, that can create your problems. E levels do not need to be above reference ranges to create problems. Some docs do not understand or care. Optimal E levels seem to be 17-25 pg/ml, with a typical reference range of 0-53.

To control E, switching from TD to injected might help, but in the end, you are probably better off trying 1mg of Arimidex/anastrozole per week. If you cannot get that, you will need to underground.


#8

Special thanks for the reply ksman.

My LH/FSH were perfectly normal which i couldn't understand (3.9 for LH) but my T dropped down a fair bit and my pit didn't change at all, even though i had a load of symptoms to go with it.

The ultrasound showed my nut's weren't damaged as such, just shrunk. Hopefully they will respond to HCG one the second varicocele embolization is done. I haven't tried HCG yet because i still have some reflux/back flow in one of the veins that could be causing blood stagnation/over-heating.

I am 65kg in weight, so not really heavy. I look pretty muscular but maybe have a tiny bit of actual fat. I am getting blood work done while on androgel in 2 weeks time and will post the results up. I am going to request injections to try. Whats the best injection method?


#9

Your testes need DHEA to make T. Any lab tests should be for DHEA-S.

Do you get enough healthy fats in your diet... such as fish oils? Is your cholesterol level low? If so, that can reduce hormone levels.

Best injection method? That is whatever you find comfortable and convenient. Doc will probably want 1.5" needle in the glut es once a week. But that can be too much of a hormone roller coaster for some. That's what motivated me to inject T EOD. I don't think that many docs would understand EOD.


#10

Are you saying to take 1mg of Arimidex once/week?

I take my HCG once per week and it's actually about 800 units in the shoulder with a slin needle.


#11

Yes, 1mg/wk is what is typical. Divide the 1mg tablet into 2 for pieces and spread out over the week.

The half life of HCG is 24 hours. That is why EOD injections are suggested. The 250iu EOD research was using SQ injections, not IM. Does not matter much, just no need to do any muscle damage. Ignore most of what you read for HCG IM, as that is for very high female fertility dosing. Your dosing may be sub optimal... but there is no research on weekly injections to back that statement up.


#12

My arimidex is in capsules and the last batchis for 1.5mg. What is the half life for arimidex?


#13

You can empty out contents of capsule. You can simply then use the wet tip of your finger to collect amount needed and place amount on tongue. 1 mg per week is usually sufficient, break that down into 3 doses of .5mg.

Use a mirror and a razor. Empty contents onto mirror, use razor to seperate 1.5mg capsule and eyeball it to get three equal piles. It won't be exactly accurate, but close enough and will do just fine. You can always buy a digital scale at a smoke shop. They are very accurate if you buy a nice one. They are typically used for weighing drugs.

Don't ask how/why I know this :wink:


#14

Lots of grace in dose technique with that.

When you take it, it will take 7-10 days to reach terminal serum levels. So front loading makes a lot of sense to hurry things up.


#15

Very good info. What kind of a dose do you recommend for front loading? 1 full MG?


#16

That would be fine. No hard science. Take 1mg then the first dose of whatever schedule you are going to use the next day.