TRT for 19 Year Old

IM NOT RUNNING A CYCLE, IM ASKING ABOUT TRT OPTIONS AND ADVICE!

Also what do you think about using metaformin to improve insulin sensitivity?

I could have possible insulin resistance from what i can gather from my glucose tolerance test, drinking 75g of dextrose. Doctor said it was fine???

but i checked online and it says that a huge insulin spike while your glucose stays normal means your pancreas has to crank out extra insulin to keep your blood sugar stable and that means insulin resistance (pre-diabetes).

This is weird because i hardly eat any carbs probably in 2 to 3 of my 6 meals a day and their all low-gi and each meal has protein in it. It’s probably due to my hormones or a genetic predisposition.

GLUCOSE 3.1-4.5-5.9 (before drinking dextrose, 1hr after, 2hr after)

INSULIN 2.1-17.9-1.9 (before drinking dextrose, 1hr after, 2hr after)

(At the 2hr mark i felt really hypo, dizzy)

The 17.9 seems really high.

I wouldnt think of running a cycle i’d just like everything to be normal.

Ive put on 11kgs in 6 weeks while my appetite has decreased! and ive experienced muscle loss so something is definitly wrong with my body.

Another test i did:

Oestradiol 306 pmol/L
Normal for male: <160

Just would like some tips and advice any info would be good.

I am wondering… why are you researching all this, and suspecting that the doctor is wrong?

If that is the case go get a second opinion, i don’t think you need to turn to the black market for drugs (you DID mention an oral CYCLE etc…) you have convinced yourself you “need” for one reason or another.

I am starting to think you have issues mate, with respect, why are you not discussing this with real professionals if you are so messed up hormonally (it seems that your whole endocrine system is out of whack!) rather than bringing it to a bunch of strangers?

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against you, and i know people here will continue to help if thay can - but i am starting to think that SOME of your treatment options (HCG, Adex) have been solely designed by you.

I may be wrong, but i do not think doctors can prescribe Adex off label, it is a breakthrough breast cancer drug after all… I know they wont prescribe tamoxifen even as an anti-E, let alone something as new, expensive and powerful as an AI.

I know you have the thyroid problem and i am sure there are a few other things wrong lad, but i just think that you may be trying to self medicate, and that is not a pretty sight.

Once you get in the habit of self-medicating, it is hard to break it - especially if you have a genuine condition to “back it up” in the first place. I have seen self medication take lives. Truly.

Best of luck.

Joe

Im meekly going to enter and exit this thread, to fix your insulin resistance and drop some bodyfat you could try Charles Poliquins Ins. Resistance protocall.
An author on this site, has done it, or is doing it and has had amazing results, and my buddy has ordered the stuff to run it.

Heres the link:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2092666

Besides that, look i know how you feel, i still HAVE all my gear ready to go BUT instead i have to deal with cancer.
YES at the start i was like you know fuck this ima do it anyway BUT some nice people like the ones here advised me well against screwing with my body when its already pretty damn screwy :slight_smile:

Forget ANYTHING that is not reccomended or given to you by your doctor, this is NOT the time to be “adventerous” just be conservative and see what you need to do.

By all means if you need advice on LEGALLY gotton meds then bushy i reccomend with a heart and a half that guy is nothing less than a legend, and when you get your body normal go pm World as he knows his stuff too.

But for now anything that isn’t LEGALLY allowed in your house do NOT use, or you could end up screwing yourself for a few measly pounds.

Regards.

Guys i don’t plan on doing a cycle oral or otherwise nor do i plan on self medicating. These are the treatment options which i will probably need to be on from researching and talking with my GP. HCG + AI for example now the doc might not prescribe an AI with that or with TRT but that just shows his ignorance (it depends on how good a doctor i find)

because if i already have high E2 levels and have experienced estro sides like feeling emotional and female pattern fat distribution an AI with HCG or TRT is a must and i think we can all agree on that.

I have researched my conditions extensively and will be getting opinions/blood work from two endos. I repeat I DONT PLAN ON SELF MEDICATING i plan on finding out what treatment I NEED TO BE ON then optimizing that treatment for optimal results.

I don’t expect you guys to “cure” me i just thought i might pickup some info from the more experienced T-Nation members who understand hormones/diseases and other problems.

Yes i was talking about starting an oral cycle or an injectable cycle but i now realize how stupid that would be, as you can see my endocrine system is in the toilet and i need to establish a a good level of health first and foremost. Believe me I’m not your typical 19 year old, in the way most think and act.

There are so many reasons you shouldn’t do a cycle until this is sorted (even then - I’m not so sure). Bushy’s covered most of it but here’s some extra info for you to ponder over…

Is your doc certain that your anemia is due to impaired synthesis? Because if it isn’t then steroids won’t even help short term.

Also, if you plan on using an AI, bear in mind that you are already predisposed towards osteopenia - so running nolva instead throughout wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea in this case. This could also help with dodgy cholesterol levels which may be an issue for you in particular.

If you’re interested, hypothyroidism can also impair left ventricular function - as can AAS if used unwisely. Not a good combination!

Bear in mind that even if you feel better “on”, the backlash that occurs after the cycle (unless you do an extremely prolonged taper) will only potentiate the effects of your hypothyroidism.

Also, AAS modify your cortisol response - and seeing how interwoven the roles of cortisol, insulin, and thyroid hormones are - I wouldn’t want to be pissing around with that if I were you. AAS could quite literally finish you off :frowning:

thats cool lad, you seem to be a bright kid.

I was just voicing a concern i had. You have negated my need for that kind of concern.

As Cork said, you won’t go very far wrong with Bushy and World!!

Good luck

Ive only spoken to my GP about this and my endo which i have only seen once so far, he put me on thyroxine 100mcg a day after he saw my blood work.

My endo dismissed the anemia as nothing, that right their tells me i need to work with someone who knows what the hell he is doing.

The thyroid im taking is actually not doing much, i feel it is giving me hyper symptoms such as increased heart rate and a headache sometimes BUT its actually not doing anything for my hypo symptoms (weight gain, energy etc.) so thats why i think i have the adrenal fatigue/low cortisol.

I have low blood pressure, impossible to get up in the morning, fatigue, inability to lose weight, low blood sugar, i don’t even sweat when i train all signs of low cortisol. So that makes me think i should stop the thyroid meds until i start taking cortisol, because the adrenals MUST be treated with the thyroid simultaineously.

This is because using thyroid meds while having weak adrenals will further deplete them (cortisol allows the thyroid hormone to enter the cells of the body, low cortisol causes the thyroid hormones to pool up in the blood(hyper symptoms as i described) while not affecting the bodys metabolism (hypo symptoms still remain). This isn’t confirmed yet and i’m doing a 24 hour urinary cortisol test to confirm this.

In regards to the AI i would have to use one, nolva wouldn’t be effective enough with whatever treatment i’m on and i need to reduce my E2 levels anyway so only an AI will achieve this, a SERM could help but it would not be up to par. I know it increases the risk of osteopenia but so does my thyroid medication.

AAS is the last option and it wouldn’t be a cycle it would be permanent TRT. My first option is to use HCG to stimulate my Testes to produce more test and boost LH levels with an AI to control E2 hopefully this will work.

As you can see my LH and FSH levels are non existant meaning my HPTA isn’t working properly.

Thanks for the support Joseph i know you were only trying to help :wink:

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
I know it increases the risk of osteopenia but so does my thyroid medication.[/quote]

Exactly my point! Which is why I suggested tamoxifen, to help balance this issue to some degree.

Seriously, osteopenia + heavy weights = ouch.

But i haven’t had any real joint problems maybe a little ache here and their but nothing major even with the heavy weight training i’ve been doing for the past 1 and a half years. I supplement fish oil 6-10g a day also so this helps.

How does Nolvadex improve joints i know it improves your lipid profile but i would never think a SERM would help your joints as they lower estrogen… how does it do this exactly?

The worst symptom i have is constant hunger, im hungry 24 hours a day! as well as excessive thirst and urinating all the time.

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
But i haven’t had any real joint problems maybe a little ache here and their but nothing major even with the heavy weight training i’ve been doing for the past 1 and a half years. I supplement fish oil 6-10g a day also so this helps.

How does Nolvadex improve joints i know it improves your lipid profile but i would never think a SERM would help your joints as they lower estrogen… how does it do this exactly?

[/quote]

It’s not joint problems per se you should be wary of. It’s the density of the actual bone which is altered. You are right that nolva is a SERM - it has different effects in different tissues. It is anti-estrogenic in breast tissue, and pro-estrogenic in bone (and others). It works by increasing osteoblast activity, and presumably decreasing osteoclast activity.

Anyway, I hope you will see that this is a moot point as you shouldn’t be cycling anytime soon.

Best of luck

Dave

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Yeah i’m keeping my chin up, well trying to at least.

It’s pretty likely ill be going on TRT, but i don’t know about GH therapy, anyway ill keep you guys updated on how things go down.

I need some opinions on what i can do diet and supplement wise to improve things.

Now i have problems with cortisol, insulin resistance, thyroid, Low T. low IGF.

I have looked into metaformin to improve insulin resistance and it says it does this pretty well (i’m aware this isn’t a supplement), opinions?

Im taking fish oil 6-10g a day and chromium picotinate to improve insulin sensitivity.

Also Reset A.D. seems to help the adrenals:

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/palo-alto-labs/reset-ad-60-capsules.html

I have pregnelone tablets 100mg each and progesterone cream. Seems that progesterone cream can help regulate thyroid function but then it can also increase E and pregnelone can increase cortisol if production if its low.

As for diet im trying to eat a high protein, low-moderate fat (from fish oil, salmon, nuts, eggs), low carbohydrate diet (1 carb meal a day 2 max) from brown rice and oatmeal and apples.

an analogy for this thread: A kid wanting to hook-up Nitrous on car that’s already not running good.

Yes that analogy is true if i was to use steroids as i intended to, but i know better now so i’m just trying to get the car running smoothly.

Good man, I wouldn’t give you the, “you’re 19, your t-levels are the highest” because thats bullshit in your case and mine. We’ll get our time.

Yea hopefully this will all get fixed and i can get my life back.

This is what ill be testing:

(Maybe doing a MRI scan of the Pituitary Gland)

Total T, Free T
Prolactin
SHBG
Albumin
DHT
Estradiol > Ultrasensitive

24 hour Cortisol/DHEA (Urinary)
ACTH Challenge Test - Detects Adrenal Fatigue
DHEA
Aldosterone
Adrenaline
Noradrenaline
(Progesterone, Pregnelone - Not sure if i need to check these)

IGF-1
GH
LH
FSH
TSH, Free T3 & T4, Reverse T3
TBG (Thyroid Binding Globulin)

Ferritin
Transferrin
Iron
Hematocrit (HCT) red blood cell count

ALT
AST
Alkaline Phosphates
Bilirubin Total and Direct

Antibodies (IgA, IgD, IgE, IgG and IgM)
(Im particularily interested in ruling out food intolerances)

This will give me everything i need to know, then i can work from their.

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Yea as soon as i get the results ill post em up.

Honestly doctors know very little. One doctor i saw frequently i told him i kept waking up at night usually about 4 times. He prescribed me Luvox (fluvoxamine) an SSRI used for depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, Unbelieveable! SSRI’s screw up your mind your metabolism/hormones not to mention they make you put on massive amounts of weight, as over time they alter your body’s serotonin receptors.

It’s time to start finding the cure not curing the symptoms.

Basically if you suffer from severe endocrine problems you have to become a doctor yourself or doctors will harm you more than help you.