T Nation

TRT Estrogen Help?


#1

Hi guys,

I've been reading alot of the posts on the forum for awhile now. Super information around from the members here....have learnt alot.

I'm 24 and was put on TRT around 6 months ago. Before that was hell, terrible lethargy, poor libido....you know the rest.

Anyway, I think It's getting to a point where my Doc just isn't up to date with the current treatment options. I have been injecting 250mg Test E 1x/week, that was all he prescribed me to begin with....

After doing much research I found out about HcG. I realised i NEEDED to be on this, for fertility's sake. So off my own bat went and gathered a plethora of knowledge and literature on the product and presented it to my doc. He took it on board, having never dealt with Hcg before (even though he has many TRT patients?) and proceeded to prescribe me HcG, which I was pleased about.

Everything is going good energy is great libido and such are much improved and going along steady.

This brings me to my next point, which is Estrogen levels. I just got back from checking with my doc my latest bloodwork after using HcG so far. He was happy with all of the results, almost everything was in normal range.

All my Test levels were slightly above normal which is good. They are as follows:

Testosterone 30.6 nmo/L (8.0-29.0)
SHBG 24 nmo/L (15-45)
Free Androgen Index 128 (35-93)
Free Testosterone 785.3 nmo/L (198-619)

However,

My Estrogen reads:

Oestradiol 154 pmo/L (40-160)

I was like :open_mouth:

He said "It's within normal range it's fine"

Facepalm.....

I then presented him with a bunch of literature on AI's and SERM's (As I have some Gyno I was hoping to trial Nolva on to see if would benefit in treatment). But more so some Arimidex for Estrogen control throughout therapy. Instead he wants me to continue using DIM, just double the amount I'm taking....Not sure this is going to benefit much if any? As I had been on DIM for awhile and was on it at the time of the blood test.

Where do I go from here guys? Basically I was hoping to get some Nolvadex for the short term (possible gyno treatment) and then Arimidex for long term Estrogen control. He was SUPER HESITANT to prescribe either due the the Medical Board of Australia being crazy strict on Testosterone and hormonal supplement distribution....

Any thoughts/help would be much appreciated.

Thanks Guys :slightly_smiling:


#2

sorry, no experience with Nolvadex... Arimidex works for most.

DIM works for some people - I tried it for awhile once before I realized how big my problem really was.


#3

dup


#4

Never seen that DIM has any useful effect in a TRT context.


#5

I know! All the research I've done suggests the same thing.....

Yet he's adamant that it's good......yet it hasn't been working up to now so I'm still so flabbergasted as to why he thinks anything is gonna change.

It's as if Armidex is impossible to get from my doc! He'd mainly dealt with older men and never needed to concern himself with younger guys protocols.....

He didn't even know anything about HcG until I came along....

Actually while I was there he told me a story of one of his other TRT patients who's been on therapy for 1 - 2 years and wants to have kids. So the patient got a fertility check....boom zero sperm count. If only he had done some research and found out about HcG from the beginning wouldn't have been so much of a problem.

I'm thinking my doc feels a bit guilty now he knows what I've taught him.....in regards to HcG....

Does anyone have any experience with getting AI's from Overseas into Australia? Just worried about customs....

Seems like this may be my best option at this point....Though it seems I'm going to be able to get my hands on some Nolvadex, so maybe run a decent OTC AI with it?
Thoughts?


#6

SERMs increase E2 levels and should also increase LH and FSH. No need to use hCG when using SERMs, but SERMs are not suitable for long term use.

AI's lower E2 levels.

You need to understand these differences and why those are the results.

Ask your doc to do a trial of anastrozole with you to observe the E2 response and to observe your changes to vitality, libido, energy, mood and symptoms.


#7

Thanks KSman :slightly_smiling:

I understand the differences, and I am looking to just be using Anastrozole to keep my E2 levels in check. I brought this up with my doc and I don't think he's very versed in it but his response was more or less like "Oh, now we're getting into drugs here" and secondly he's worried about prescribing that type of product due to potential investigation by the medical board. I'm still lost though with that excuse, because he advertises himself as a hormone therapy SPECIALIST.....I'm pretty sure last time I checked Estrogen was a hormone....

KSman, do you have any links to Significant medical literature or journal pieces on the safety and effectiveness of Anastrozole? I gave him a fair bit of quality documentation, so hopefully he comes around in 2 weeks at my next appointment.

At this stage I'm getting the vibe that he;s never going to come round....which means I'll have to get my Adex from another source....


#8

You can remind your doc that anastrozole has a good safety record and the female dose of 1mg/day is a small chemical load on the body. And that most men will take 1mg/week, not 1mg/day. With males, the dose/response is very linear and it is used to modulate E2 levels, not zero them out. Your target is to get near 22pg/ml which is within the "normal lab range".

Men who have higher E2 levels within the normal range have many problems. It is normal to have those problems in the lab statistics as well.

E2 blocks T at T receptors and reduces the effects of what free T you have.
Elevated E2 can create symptoms of hypogonadism, even when TRT yields high range TT and FT.
Lower E2 will reduce SHBG and allow for better FT levels.

Explain that TRT increases E2 and the goals of HRT in general also require that hormones be balanced.