T Nation

TRT Before & After Colon Cancer Operation


#1

KSMAN. I am 75 yrs old and have been on TRT over 3 yrs now and finally got dialed in:

total T = 778.72 (129-769)
free T = 45.51 (15-50)
E2 = 26.5 ( 0-56)

I was operated in March 2017 for colon cancer and continue on TRT with 33 mg T-Cyp EOD.

My Dr. thinks he got all the cancer and he wants me to stop TRT.
I really don’t want to stop TRT. What do you and the other folks on the forum have to say.

I hope you have time to comment.

Thank you,
Joe Petrof rpetrof@yahoo.co.uk


To mr ksman and others
To mr ksman and others
#2

Good evening test20. I am glad to hear the doctor believes he was able to get all of the cancer, that is great news! As for an opinion on if you should continue with TRT against your doctors advise I would say that is a personal decision. After looking around a bit I notice this study and believe it to be relevant and perhaps worth a read to assist in making an informed decision.


#3

Thank you Mr Grunge. Last January I weighed 290, I am 6’2’’ and the day of the operation I weighed 177; as of last night I now weigh 204.


#4

What can he be thinking? The two are not in any way related. You will live longer on TRT.
Treatment with chemo or radiation zapped your testes?

Do you have pre-surgery hormone labs?

Did you then have?

  • ED
  • no libido
  • low RBC, hematocrit
  • anemia
  • muscle wasting
  • frail
  • unsteady
  • bone loss
  • insulin resistance
  • no hair below the knees and shiny shins
  • thin skin with spider lines and pinched up skin on back of hand stayed up a bit “tenting”

With your cancer, did you loose much plumbing that would reduce absorption of minerals and nutrients? Do you take a B-complex with lots of B-12?

Any other labs?
TSH? - see last paragraph in this post.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#5

REPLY TO KSMAN’S EMAIL

Message body
KSMAN THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY.

I USE UPPER CASE BECAUSE IT’S EASIER FOR ME TO USE AND SEE.

I HAVE FOLLOWED YOU ON TNATION FOR 4 YEARS. I HAVE READ ALL THE STICKIES AND THE REASON I FINALLY GOT DIALED IN IS BY FOLLOWING ALL YOUR ADVISE.

I HAVE NOT YET HAD ANY CHEMO ETC. THE CANCER DR I AM TO SEE IS OUT OF THE COUNTRY; MY DR WANTS ME TO SEE HIM WHEN HE GETS BACK IN BELIZE.

MY PRE-SURGERY LABS ARE THE SAME AS I INCLUDED IN MY POST. THEY WERE THE SAME ONE MONTH AFTER SURGERY. THE ONLY BLOOD TEST THAT WAS A PROBLEM FOR SEVERAL MONTHS PRIOR TO SURGERY WAS MY HEMOGLOBIN WAS VERY LOW (7.5). IT IS NOW 10.5 SIX WEEKS AFTER SURGERY.

I HAVE EXPERIENCED THE FOLLOWING:

ED
no libido
low RBC, hematocrit
anemia
muscle wasting
frail
unsteady

THIS LINK THAT MR GRUNGE SENT ME SCARED THE HECK OUT OF ME AND IS THE REASON FOR CONTACTING YOU.
The role of testosterone in colorectal carcinoma: pathomechanisms and open questions

MY TSH IS NORMAL. I TAKE 5 DROPS OF NASCENT IODINE EVERY MORNING.

MY FATHER DIED OF STOMACH CANCER AT AGE 53, THEREFORE THE REASON FOR MY CONCERN ABOUT MR GRUNGE’S LINK.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR INPUT ON THIS.

JOE PETROF


#6

I wanted you to know the latest research out there, I was not intending to scare you. As chemistry is my line of work I’m always looking at research. Since beginning TRT I take time and consideration when I come across something that has testosterone in it. With all of that said, the studies summarized are mice studies that uses gene expressions modification and exposure to simulate human response. What the last study referenced attempts to look at is if the testosterone stimulates the tumors. It is uncertain from the results if testosterone promotes CRC, or if estrogen aides in preventing CRC through a poorly understood mechanism (human studies suggest it is progesterone not estrogen). While the study does show correlating data to show that estrogen dominant mice were least susceptible to CRC, then sterilized mice and finally mice with testosterone being the most susceptible. It does not state the rates of CRC in each sample group. I will look to see if I can find the final study they reference.


#7

**

TRT Before & After Colon Cancer Operation
T Replacement

THANK YOU, MR GRUNGE, I AM HAVING PROBLEMS REPLYING.

**


#8

You are faced with a decision of certain quality of life [QOL] and vitality VS reduced risk and low quality of life. How long will your rat live?

So doc put you on TRT because RBC was low from GI bleeding? Some of your low RBC probably was from low T.

I like to turn the argument around. Should doctors have men with these cancers castrated to increase life expectancy? As a group, castrated men should live a few months longer. In your case, stopping TRT is the same in many ways as getting castrated.

Note that these markers prior to your cancer treatment indicate easy to observe long term established low-T.

  • no hair below the knees and shiny shins
  • thin skin with spider lines and pinched up skin on back of hand stayed up a bit “tenting”

Immune system plays a major role in cancers. Thyroid and Vit-D3 status are very obvious influences.

TRT is indicated for these:

  • ED
  • no libido
  • low RBC, hematocrit
  • anemia
  • muscle wasting
  • frail
  • unsteady

Men who are frail and unsteady from muscle wasting are prone to falling and leg/hip fractures. While women seem to survive these event reasonably well, in comparison, 1 year survival rates for males are poor. Yes, bone loss is a factor and you probably have not had bone density tested (?). When men are on TRT, testing bone density is more of a curiosity as the testing will not lead to any intervention as TRT is the best treatment. Of course, one should already be making sure that Vit-D3 intake, trace elements, calcium and magnesium are good.

Re this cancer. There are suggestions that a diet higher in red meats and animal fats is a factor. As a group, men eat differently than women. I wonder if these cancer studies have made any effort to separate T hormone effects from males eating differently…


#9

I think KSman hit the nail on the head.

They did not. Nor were levels of testosterone, monitored or tested in anyway in the human studies. However, one did track women on HRT with estrogen and women taking HRT with estrogen and progesterone and found estrogen only HRT provided the same rate of correlation of CRC as men. It was only the group taking progesterone as part of HRT that found reduced correlation to instances of CRC.


#10

Continuing the discussion from TRT Before & After Colon Cancer Operation:

MR KSMAN AND OTHERS. THE ONCOLOGIST GOT BACK IN COUNTRY AND I MET WITH HIM THE OTHER DAY FOR THE FIRST TIME. HE SAID THAT I AM NOW A CANCER SURVIVOR AND I HAD STAGE 3 COLON CANCER. THE DOCTOR WHO OPERATED ON ME AND THE LAB SAY THAT THEY THINK THEY GOT ALL OF THE INFECTED AREAS.

THE ONCOLOGIST SAID THAT TESTOSTERONE DID NOT CAUSE MY CANCER AND THAT FURTHER USE OF T WILL NOT CAUSE CANCER IN ANY WAY.

I WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT THE DR AGREED WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

THANK YOU,
JOE PETROF


#11

That is a fuzzy situation as many female studies are tainted with fake or zeno progesterones known as progestins and estrogens from urine of pregnant horses [Premarin]. Both are known to create problems.