T Nation

TRT at 22, Could Diet Be Underlying Issue?

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Thanks makes total sense, I’m going to talk with my endo saturday but he was up for HCG/RESTART… Think id rather to HCG for a period and then think about trying a clomid restart, if I’m feeling good doubt ill want to risk it though haha![/quote]

Ya I felt so good initially on the HCG, almost wish I never switched to Clomid. If you could learn from my experience, if you switch to Clomid for a restart after HCG, get bloodwork after the shortest time on the Clomid (i.e. 2-4 weeks). That way, if it’s not working, you can bail and go back to HCG if that works well for you.

[quote]kris90 wrote:

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Thanks makes total sense, I’m going to talk with my endo saturday but he was up for HCG/RESTART… Think id rather to HCG for a period and then think about trying a clomid restart, if I’m feeling good doubt ill want to risk it though haha![/quote]

Ya I felt so good initially on the HCG, almost wish I never switched to Clomid. If you could learn from my experience, if you switch to Clomid for a restart after HCG, get bloodwork after the shortest time on the Clomid (i.e. 2-4 weeks). That way, if it’s not working, you can bail and go back to HCG if that works well for you.[/quote]

yeh for sure, i cant decide at the moment if im better trying clomid first to see if i can restore function, or hcg then clomid which seems a bit more time consuming and drawn out…

probabily the quickest solution is hcg + trt, but id be up for giving clomid a run before then if that doesnt work hcg for a period… HCG would depend on how i react to the estro issues and if it increased my T enough I guess…

Between a rock and a hard place haha, im pretty indecisive in general too so this could take a while for me to decide the best route first!

Well since your T levels are already low, you may be better to go for a restart with Clomid now. Get bloodwork done after 1 month. If LH/FSH and T levels rise nicely, continue for another month, then taper off and get bloodwork to see if your levels stuck.

If LH/FSH and T levels fail to rise or only rise modestly (like in my case), go for HCG mono, and continue on that until you can come up with reasons as to why the Clomid failed.

Just saw my endo today…

Hes said that its probably due to training and that because i look healthy the tiredness/labido is due to that even though my test is rock bottom, he said that would be from training but then went on to say dont worry about training less…

so confused and deflated

Any opinions?

2 years of feeling tired/not quite right with low labido… GP does bloods, low T > Refers to endo
First endo, talks through head injury + past PH cycle. Decides its head related and suggests TRT solo gel’s + MRI to rule out tumour etc…

Second opinion (higher up in terms of qualifications) - Conducts more bloods to rule out other issues, but bloods come back the same, poor pituitary output etc but decides not to treat and to leave it and says the following :- I can maintain erection, my sperm count is good - therefore he doesn’t think my low T is worth treating (Even though its 4-9nmol).

So now I’m stuck between two opinions.
Endo 1 - My T is too low and its causing my tiredness/labido issues and that TRT is best option, and that its probably from my head injury.
Endo 2 - My T is low, but I’m functioning fine so leave it - Because my tissues are working (sperm count + muscle mass) TRT probably isn’t worth it and I should carry on as normal and that overtraining may be causing my issues/symptoms not the low T.

My own perspective.
I believe the head injury is most likely the sole cause, my tiredness/labido issues have been since i can remember, but I’m not denying training would possibly make me more tired, but i don’t think thats lowering my T that much.
Although i could carry on with life as is, my sleep is often lacking in quality even though i take all the steps i can to make it good (no caffeine, bed by 10pm etc etc) it still does not improve.
The lack of labido effects my current relationship. (Although yes i can maintain erection, but no morning wood)

Maybe i am just chasing numbers? but I don’t think my numbers are even close to borderline acceptable that Im in a position to just leave it?

Sounds like typical doctors.

Numbers don’t mean anything, it’s how you feel, and if you have obvious symptoms pointing to a specific condition (hypogonadism) then you should not give up on getting the proper treatment. You are 22 years old. If your levels are as low as they are now, what will they be like in 10 years? 20 years? 30 years?

I highly doubt overtraining would cause your low T. I really think it’s worth trying a restart with a SERM. Don’t spend too much time with that if it’s not working for you (i.e. not feeling improvements, and bloodwork not changing much). Go to HCG monotherapy if SERM fails, and re-evaluate. If HCG helps moderately but not significantly, you could add T injections.

You will want to rule out other causes as well (i.e. adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, or both). You won’t feel better until you optimize all hormones.

[quote]kris90 wrote:
Sounds like typical doctors.

Numbers don’t mean anything, it’s how you feel, and if you have obvious symptoms pointing to a specific condition (hypogonadism) then you should not give up on getting the proper treatment. You are 22 years old. If your levels are as low as they are now, what will they be like in 10 years? 20 years? 30 years?

I highly doubt overtraining would cause your low T. I really think it’s worth trying a restart with a SERM. Don’t spend too much time with that if it’s not working for you (i.e. not feeling improvements, and bloodwork not changing much). Go to HCG monotherapy if SERM fails, and re-evaluate. If HCG helps moderately but not significantly, you could add T injections.

You will want to rule out other causes as well (i.e. adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, or both). You won’t feel better until you optimize all hormones.[/quote]

Yeh exactly my feeling, although I’m not sure the symptoms are too life dissembling, bar being tired and not particularly interested in sex i could live on…

Adrenal fatigue was ruled out with synatchin test, and my thyroid is slightly under performing but not greatly, and I’m going to try iodine for that…

So TRT is most likely the option through doctors as none want to talk about restarts… not sure id want to attempt a restart on my own either… estro issues etc

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Yeh exactly my feeling, although I’m not sure the symptoms are too life dissembling, bar being tired and not particularly interested in sex i could live on…

Adrenal fatigue was ruled out with synatchin test, and my thyroid is slightly under performing but not greatly, and I’m going to try iodine for that…

So TRT is most likely the option through doctors as none want to talk about restarts… not sure id want to attempt a restart on my own either… estro issues etc [/quote]

Well, I guess work on the Thyroid, and maybe once that improves, you’re LH/FSH will come up and help raise T levels.

Looking back at your bloodwork, I noticed your FT4 levels looked alright, but your FT3 was on the low end. This might mean that your liver has a problem converting T4 into T3. Make sure when you take Iodine, you supplement with Selenium (200-400mcg per day). This will help improve the T4 to T3 conversion and might help you feel a lot better.

Continue to track temperatures, and try to reach 37 C.

[quote]kris90 wrote:

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Yeh exactly my feeling, although I’m not sure the symptoms are too life dissembling, bar being tired and not particularly interested in sex i could live on…

Adrenal fatigue was ruled out with synatchin test, and my thyroid is slightly under performing but not greatly, and I’m going to try iodine for that…

So TRT is most likely the option through doctors as none want to talk about restarts… not sure id want to attempt a restart on my own either… estro issues etc [/quote]

Well, I guess work on the Thyroid, and maybe once that improves, you’re LH/FSH will come up and help raise T levels.

Looking back at your bloodwork, I noticed your FT4 levels looked alright, but your FT3 was on the low end. This might mean that your liver has a problem converting T4 into T3. Make sure when you take Iodine, you supplement with Selenium (200-400mcg per day). This will help improve the T4 to T3 conversion and might help you feel a lot better.

Continue to track temperatures, and try to reach 37 C.[/quote]

Thanks, iv got another blood test next week with the fertility guy as he wanted me to stop training and see if that helped, so I’m going to hold off iodine before iv done those bloods… Then ill try iodine and get re tested…

Got another appointment wednesday with a 3rd endo (great!) to confirm if he thinks TRT is the way or to leave it be and live on with slight symptoms… what would you do considered my symptoms arnt tragic?

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Thanks, iv got another blood test next week with the fertility guy as he wanted me to stop training and see if that helped, so I’m going to hold off iodine before iv done those bloods… Then ill try iodine and get re tested…

Got another appointment wednesday with a 3rd endo (great!) to confirm if he thinks TRT is the way or to leave it be and live on with slight symptoms… what would you do considered my symptoms arnt tragic?

[/quote]

If I was you (which actually, we are in very similar situations), I would address and rule out all possible causes first before committing to TRT.

If all else fails, by all means, go for TRT. TRT is pretty well guaranteed to improve your symptoms as long as you get your dose dialed in and T:E2 ratio is good. Just a matter of if you are ready to commit to that (i.e. can’t find a cause).

[quote]kris90 wrote:

[quote]shadow77 wrote:
Thanks, iv got another blood test next week with the fertility guy as he wanted me to stop training and see if that helped, so I’m going to hold off iodine before iv done those bloods… Then ill try iodine and get re tested…

Got another appointment wednesday with a 3rd endo (great!) to confirm if he thinks TRT is the way or to leave it be and live on with slight symptoms… what would you do considered my symptoms arnt tragic?

[/quote]

If I was you (which actually, we are in very similar situations), I would address and rule out all possible causes first before committing to TRT.

If all else fails, by all means, go for TRT. TRT is pretty well guaranteed to improve your symptoms as long as you get your dose dialed in and T:E2 ratio is good. Just a matter of if you are ready to commit to that (i.e. can’t find a cause).[/quote]

Yes thank you, I just had this email from a well respected forum user in these things and it said

"I must be missing something here.
First your FSH, and LH are in range so why they took an ultrasound is way beyond me.
Your free T is in range (low end), yet probably because your SHBG is a bit low your free T is in range.

What time was your test taken?

Your doc may be right in some of his thinking as over training over time will cause chronic fatigue and yes can lower T levels some but for sure make you feel tired.

The problem looks more like the nuts to me.
I would take 5000iu vitamin D a day, probably 25mg DHEA a day, cut the training down to an hour per session and do 3 a week, try getting better sleep."

confused me even more haha! am i fine or not? someone clarify this :L


Just had these bloods back…

High igf means my pituitary is outputting other hormones okay? So maybe training is lowering my T? Not sure what to take from DHT levels…

What is status of iodine and body temperatures?

If rT3 is mid range, then low body temps probably from elevated rT3, see references to that in thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid issues can lead to secondary hypogonadism.

Can someone else get 37C with that thermometer?

Read the sticky on things that damage your hormones? there are 7 stickies

The prohormones alone could likely be the reason for the downregulation of your endocrine system. This happens all the time as so many intricate feedback loops are altered when you take those plus there could be other ingredients causing chemical insult. The slugglish thyroid and testosterone feedback loop might be more of a symptom rather than the underlying problem itself.

[quote]daveness371 wrote:
The prohormones alone could likely be the reason for the downregulation of your endocrine system. This happens all the time as so many intricate feedback loops are altered when you take those plus there could be other ingredients causing chemical insult. The slugglish thyroid and testosterone feedback loop might be more of a symptom rather than the underlying problem itself.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply, seen 3 endos now and they all say either take TRT or live with symptoms as their mild (tiredness and labido) because I can hold muscle and creating sperm I must be receiving enough androgens… But that I could take Trt to make me feel better, and that it’s unlikely to be pro hormone and their not sure what’s causing it… But maybe overtraining which I’m not too sure on…

Not sure what to do atm:::

Had more bloods come back, T is still low and thryoid is looking worse for ware… Still not help with the thryoid so going to try iodine sticky.

Bloods
thyroid antibodies - negative
t4 - 17.9 (12-22)
TSH - 3.8 (0.2-4.20)
LH - 2.0
FSH - 2.6
estro - 36 (28-156)

Test - 5.2 (7.6-31)
shbg - 27 (14.5 - 48.4)

The lab forgot to do t3 but iv had it done before in previous bloods posted…

@KSman

[quote]KSman wrote:
What is status of iodine and body temperatures?

If rT3 is mid range, then low body temps probably from elevated rT3, see references to that in thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid issues can lead to secondary hypogonadism.

Can someone else get 37C with that thermometer?

Read the sticky on things that damage your hormones? there are 7 stickies

could you look at my latest bloods, appreciated

[/quote]