T Nation

TRT and Need It!


I just got the results of my blood work, and found that my T levers were actually low! You'd think that a healthy 43 year old Male would be okay, but I guess shit happens. I'm 6 foot even, 210 and about 20% Body fat.

My levels are:
Total T - 178 ng/dL
Free T - 51 pg/mL
Estradiol - 24 pg/mL

The Doc hit me with a 200 ml of Test Cyp, and I go back every 2 weeks for 6 weeks til we run some more blood work. The high acceptable T level is 827 ng/dL, but the Doc said he'd like to see me hovering around 1000 ng/dL.

This sure explains a lot of why I'm working out harder and getting less returns, and I can't seem to shed the bodyfat like I used to. I was considering the Juice, but I am going to see how this goes first. I may just get where I want to be with just the TRT!


200mg E2Weeks will roller coaster you badly, and build up your E2 levels as well. (probably) See if you doc will go for 100/wk to keep your levels more even. Actually 50mg E3D would be optimum, but not all docs will do that. Good luck.



I had to talk him into every 2 weeks, he originally wanted me to come back in 3 weeks. I'll work on the 100mg every week.
I'll keep ya'all in the loop!


Did the doc give you any ideas on what may have been causing the low natural T levels?


The large dose every two weeks will also push up SHBG and reduce FT. The increased E, lower FT from SHBG and E competing with FT at receptors can make you feel like crap!

If you are doing 100mg/wk, you need to be self injecting, then inject twice a week or more [I inject EOD] and find out what feels right for you... afterall, you are the patient, not your lab report. Only you can know what is right for you.

You need HCG to save your testicules and very likely will need an AI such as arimidex to get E where you feel best.


Sounds like you may have a good doctor if he is willing to push your total T levels up to 1000. Most doctors want their TRT patients in the mid-range levels. Your doctor may be open to other suggestions like more frequent injections or even letting you do it yourself at home which would be even better.


It depends on your doctor of course, but it may be wise to not "set off his radar" concerning needs or requirements for bodybuilding as opposed to simple TRT concepts.

However, given the statement of aiming towards 1000ng, if you are patient, your E levels will rise and so forth, and your doctor may arrive at the same conclusions as people around here.


I am counting the Doc to take the iniative and bump it up a notch, I was going to see where the E levels were at the next BW and possibly ask for some AI. At this low of a dose do I still need to worry about shrinkage? It has only been 4 days, but I feel fantastic! The workouts are going better than they have in years, and my energy level and interest in my wife is great.


The Doc didn't give me any idea as to what would cause it or what to do about it, It may have had something to do with my supplement timing and following a little of what Cy Wilson suggested in his article, Your Doctor,Your Dealer. Other than that, he was ready to hit me with some Test, and I was cool with that!


Question, what is stopping me from taking my test results to another doctor and having him administer trt also? This is probably a bad idea, but has anybody had experience with this?


"Using multiple doctors to prescribe controlled substances is punishable by law", how about that for a "no" answer?



Once you start Test you take it for life..
Try using some other natural test boosters like tribulus, maca, Goat weed, eurycoma longifolia.

I do and cycle the tribulus and longifolia



Your doctor is following protocols. Unfortunately, those protocols are out of date. I'd recommend that you read Dr John Crisler's protocols and discuss them with your doctor.

Here's a link to the page with his protocols. Once there, click on the link that says: "TRT: A Recipe for Success"



I hear people say that often. Are you suggesting that one or a combination of these supplements will somehow "cure" him and after some period of time he can stop using them? Or will he have to take these natural test boosters for life?

His numbers are really low. He needs TRT. Supplements may work for someone with normal test levels who wants to raise their levels, but for TRT, no way.


Happydog, I read this paper and will take it to my Doc, I think he will be receptive, but what protocols are you referring to?


Look, with these sups you get your own body to start production of test as opposed to takeing an out side form of it..

The tribulus and the like are used by bodybuilders who are takeing test and need to get there body started again...
I would try the sups FIRST and if the test levels do not come up then seek TRT at that point...


What you are talking about are bodybuilders who are coming of a cycle of anabolic steroids. This situation appears to be substantially different. This is a 43 yo male whom (I'm guessing) has not been using anabolic steroids but looks to be experiencing andropause, based on his age, his numbers and his symptoms.

Every leading physician in the country who specializes in this area that I have seen, rectifies this situation with exogenous test because it works.

However, if you have substantial, quantifiable, verifiable evidence that these supplements, taken for a limited amount of time, can cure secondary hypogonadism, please produce it. I am sure the thousands of middle-aged men who are on TRT will be glad to know they can get ready to chuck their creams, gels, patches and needles.


You want substantial evidence well I am it.. I use them and they work.. That is not to say it will work for all but the substantial, quantifiable, verifiable evidence is that if you take test externally then it WILL stop all production of your own, and taken long enough could be permanent...

All I am suggesting is to try to get your own guys working first...
If not then Yea, use what ever you want if you can afford it..



Oh yea by the way what do you think TRT is any way:
"anabolic steroids"
Comparing apples to apple sauce...



Wow! What a mountain of irrefutable evidence! I am glad these supplements worked for you. You have not stated what caused your condition of low test, what your numbers were before and after the supplements or any other details, but I somewhat doubt your situation is the same as we are discussing here.

My situation was similar to this one. I spent hundreds of dollars on supplements to raise my testosterone and lower my estrodiol. All they did was lighten my wallet and cause me to suffer needlessly for months while I waited for them to do something. I felt zero improvement until I went to a knowledgeable physician who prescribed testosterone and Arimidex.

HCG will keep your own body producing test while using an exogenous source of testosterone while on TRT.