T Nation

TRT and Me -- Help Please


Urgency response PLEASE------
Mr. KSman, or anyone else,
Sorry just don't have the time to read KSman's entire thread, here's my situation:

I have trained all my life I am in my late 50's I've been on TRT injection for like 9 years,
script = 200ml/1ml every 2 weeks cyp/enth/depo I get my pick,
Well this does not work any more so I try to keep it at 1 ml every week, yet still I feel like crap, been like this for some time the doctors just don't seem to get it, but KSman's first thread shed a ton of light.

I read somewhere on T-Nation regarding testicular shrinkage along with a dull pain and them tucking back up.
YEP I raise my hand, I noticed this happening for the past 6 months.

I have been in this dull-drum for over 1 1/2 years can't shake it off.

Yes I told my doctor who specializes in internal medicine no issue's with me and my injection's but its hard to talk to him so I am seeing a nurse practitioner who just so happens to actually know about hormonal replacement .......... YIPPEE ........... I threw her a couple of question's learned from KSman and others here at T-Nation she new exactly what I was talking about so here's the deal:

I need as much info as possible for her and my hormone therapy, KSman did reply to this thread which was on the TRT protocol- Thank YOU

Blood test's
Up till Jan 07 all was well, but a doctor I had put a camera up my ass, after that my BP and blood levels started to get crazy per LAB CORP's specs. I heard that sedative he gave me could possible hurt my Kidneys? remember this was back in 2007.

Last blood test 1/2010 taken right after the fat filled holidays of 2009 showed elevated:

Hemoglobin 17.2 10/09 pretty consistent +/- 2 points

Glucose 137 high [possible candidate for diabetes] however kidney doc said no problem.

Bun 19 good was at one point 38

creatineine 1.52 high - was normal before the camera
1.2 in 06,
1.7 in 07
1.43 in 6/08,
1.88 3/09
back to 1.52 1/10

glom filter rate 47 low - not a big issue pretty consistent

AST 41 been very low

ALT 75 high - been in low range till 2010

Cholesterol Total 282 way high

Triglycerides 254 was 395 checked 2 months prior - NOTE: don't drink the night of your blood test people

HDL 49 going up yeah

VLDL 51 was 79 on last test - yeah again

LDL 182 was 110 here's that old story DON'T EAT FAST FOOD'S lazy ass!

estradiol 19 tested once in 4/08

T4 7.5 10/09

TSH 0.955 10/09 very consistent - .100

I left T out for a reason I tested in the 800-1200 range 3 times in a row from 4/08 -6/08
But in 3/08 went on a drug holiday for a month OPPS....... results came back @ T45/TF in the toilet WOW!!!!!!!!!
last test 3/09 T119/FT8.4 again another holiday, when in the upper limits back in 2008 reading's where
FT 36.1-25.7 however I was hitting the gym hard --------

had my IGF-1 checked back in 2006 it was at 181 WHAT A BIT*H to get that tested!

This whole thing really was an eye opener for me. My doctor put me on a 5 month trial to see if I could get myself back together so in fact I did or have been trying my best not easy when you feel like sh*t all the time.

Since Feb. I dropped 17 pounds, back in my tighter 30 waist genes with my heavy shirts tucked in, the stress belly is almost gone------- Cool

I eat well and try to do core and uphill tread mill, yes I have my own personal gym but just am not motivated to beat my ass up besides my tendon's and muscles seem to be very fragile and pron to tearing something I have started having issues with post the camera in 2007.

2007 tore my upper long head bicep muscle - reattached thank god, then in 12/09 messed up my left forearm tendon's from my wrist to my elbow that took time, last week my groin muscle -------------- SHOOT ME NOW ----------- LOL just kidding, wait that would depend on who you talk to :slightly_smiling:

Anyway I need key words to tell this nurse -

I heard somewhere that the sedative they gave me to put me out while doing the colonoscopy [sp ck]thing can hurt your kidneys THUS THE POSSIBLE reason for my elevated levels and BP so my doc ran all these kidney test's etc and all test showed normal........ Yes friends if your having a BP problem you go see a kidney specialist.

Thank you for reading I appreciate all the info and help I can get.



Radiology contrast dyes can injure kidneys, most often seen when there is arterial disease and oxidative stress and inflammation. It is known that a dose of cheap anti-oxidants will eliminate these negative outcomes, but no drug reps to tell the docs and docs do not do general reading on their own.


You need hematocrit, CRP and homocysteine tested. And current E2 labs WHEN you are on a steady T dose.

You need TSH Ft3, and fT4

Include lab ranges.

Start injecting more often.

Get on metformin ASAP and eat low glycemic index foods. Many would say that you are diabetic. High glucose damages the blood vessels.... high BP.

5 month trial of what?

How does your body feel? Mood? Energy, Initiative? Social or housebound? Explain "feel like crap".


I've used very simple plan for the treatment of my hypogonadism for 8 years.

Here it is:

10 grams of Androgel per day

Consistent range of T level for 8 years: 700 to 1000 ng/dl.

Problems: none.


Bricknyce, many will fail on your protocol. How are you helping? Guys need to understand the issues of elevated estradiol, optimal levels and how to control estradiol levels. If your levels are OK for you without intervention, you should not be distracting others from understanding the basics.


My doctor prescribes Arimidex and clomid for those who need it.

I've had my problem dealt with using the least amount of drugs possible. I understand that not everyone responds the same. I just see too many people complicating matters and using up a lot of time and energy via internet communication with non-professionals when their problem(s) could be dealt with by seeking the help of a COMPETENT professional.

I don't think I'm distracting too many people after coming to the conclusion that 75% of posters lack common sense, ask for advice that they don't give a shit to take anyway, or hamper their own progress by sabotaging and complicating matters even when making PROGRESS!

Like the guy who we spoke with in another thread regarding doctors to see in Long Island and New York - I doubt he'll even use my advice and seek one of them out. And if he does, I'm sure he'll give that doctor a hard time with endless irrelevant questions and/or non-compliance (even if things are going OK).

Same goes for a lot of other guys, ESPECIALLY those who think TRT for a reel medical condition, hypogonadism, is the same as using steroids for anabolic pharmacology.


Thank You both for helping, here's the results of yesterdays appointment:

First KSman,
Thank god I had copied your info it really helped out a ton although stupid me forgot to bring along your recommendation's for Blood test's no big deal, this person actually listened, when I gave her a tracking of ALL MY BLOOD WORK starting in 2005 she was floored.

Responding to your question's:

How does your body feel? - it feels good except for tight tendon's

Mood? - sucks although I am not a moody person nor ten feet tall when I drink NEVER.... bar Fights make me laugh ........... so I don't go to bars........ can't.... as the song goes "Every One Wants to Kick my ASS"

Energy, -really sucks

Initiative? none

Social or housebound? rather sleep

Explain "feel like crap". - well I'm not warm and mushy don't stink not brown in color not tapered at one end ----- in other words,
I just feel cruddy all the time this has been a problem that my doctors just don't seem to get....... You know exactly how I feel............. like shit ...... lol

Thank you to bad I didn't have your information at my visit however never to late to report it.
Only one thing for you to consider - I have been on T for longer then I thought almost 10 years after my medical record review, what I am trying to say is that I was fine in 2008 which would put me at the 8 year mark just be careful and make note of all your blood's.

My labs are documented on a spread sheet when I opened them they looked like a road map right there and then she new I was for real but remember, this is the same group of practitioners my last doctor is at the one that stopped scripting me for injections

here's the fun part she to told me T injection's are category 2 a bit of a tense moment began between us but she was smart enough to get the big red book and look up every thing I placed in front of her low and behold she said your right, YEA.....

She told me to call back and leave a message concerning some of the scripts in question and or anything I may have missed --- which I need to do.

I did call her to include the blood work KSman suggested and will update her on the scripts.

I called that University Compounding Pharmacy in SD CA there off there rocker's --------- You all better have medical insurance no way I can offered this stuff.
Cash Price:

Arimidex 30# $462.49

hCG 150.00

Metformine 30# 1000mg 49.00

HGH 5 mg $295 10mg $590.00 15mg $885.00
NOTE: there is some info i.e. mg and dosage missing so don't take my writings as exact $ numbers but its close.

I found out that I can get every thing from my local pharmacy some will have to be ordered but what I have learned is this:

If anyone out there really wants to know which doctors scripts what you don't go asking your doctor [red flag] NO you seek a Pharmacist, more then one - they are more the willing to take your $ thus they will divulge a ton of info for free. The Pharmacist I talked to is going to call me back Monday regarding dosage's he understood my situation and has no problem's.

Thank YOU



Thanks for the reply.

I don't keep track of much because I've never had a problem. The guy simply sends me a PDF document of my lab values. I see they're OK and don't think about it til 6 months later when I have to see him again.

I only ran into ONE issue, but I wouldn't say it was a problem because it was fixed easily. For years, I was using 10 grams and my levels stayed at 700 to 900 ng/dl, but for some reason one time my level rose to 1500.

I knew something was wrong because I broke out all over my lower back, my temper was ridiculous (I have a bad one to begin with that I control with sheer discipline), and I felt very bloated. My LH and FSH values were VERY low because of this. He gave me half a tab of clomid and they returned to normal. We went back to 7.5 grams of Androgel, and on the next visit, back to 10.

I've never had an abnormally high T value ever since and I don't know why it happened that time. My FSH and LH values are low normal.


1000mg metformin is $10 for a 90 day supply of 180 tablets at Walmart.
hCG is cheaper at Sam's Club with a business membership. Also ask at Costco.
Testosterone cypionate as above.
Compounded T cream is way cheaper at lifeextensionrx.com
HGH is a scam to bleed those who can spend insane amounts of money.

Many guys have thyroid problems that need to be resolved. So you feel cold easily? Skin problems, brittle nails or hair?

Check body temp when you wake before you get out of bed. If a pattern near 97F, you probably have some degree of hypothyroidism. Do you get enough iodine? Using iodized salt? Many are deficient these days from eating prepared foods which typically are prepared with salt that has not been iodized. Sea salt does not have iodine unless added. Some non processed rock salt has some iodine.

Have you been using HGH?

Getting sun exposure? Taking vit-D?


I'll be looking into Costco went shopping yesterday Walmart told me to go to Costco they said stuff was the least expensive.
My local Pharmacy said Metformine 1000mg #30 was only $7.76 your price is even better..

Thyroid - I don't get cold but rather on the hot side, my skin is clear, but recently my hair has gotten thin baby like "RED FLAG" this was noticed buy my hair cutter she said I have never seen your hair like this so I'm assuming this is a recent change ------ blood work is ordered

NO I never used HGH by all the other readings on T Nation people swear by it ------- confused !!!
YOUR the 2nd person who said scam.....

Sun ---- I'm aware how the sun can improve well being. We've had rainy days and its been cold outside I've noticed a change in my in the recent year+, the weather outside was in the 30-40f mark my shop is cold I am cold YUCK, BUT lately its been nice an sunny it does give me an uplift.

While I trained hard I would go into the sun tan booths for two reason's
1 - I liked the deep heat it gave me
2 - my pale ass wasn't pale ---- funny story, went on a vacation I was as dark as the Hispanic's and I have blue eye's, they had a good laugh on that one...

Perhaps I should take some Vit-D -------- going into town for my kids anyway I'll pick some up can't hurt.

May I just give you a bit of advice and this goes for all:
It's extremely wise to keep track of you medical stuff I mean ALL OF IT ----- If you've been blowing it off time to start.

Ask for all your doctors reports their your property along with blood work - put the blood work in a spread sheet and keep your Doctors reports filed ---- protect them -----

Now if you decide to seek another doctor you'll have all this info, besides your medical history is on file and anyone in a court of law can subpoena it. Simply put it doesn't disappear.

Thanks Guys