T Nation

TRT and “Blasting”

After about 10 years of lifting and in the last few years researching/educating myself about AAS, Im considering doing a few cycles over the year (in addition to my TRT), starting with this one soon when gyms re-open. (I don’t want to drop the Sustanon now I’m dialled into it & want to keep a “constant”).

TRT : 175mg Sustanon + 1000iu HCG week. (Doses split pin mon+thurs) - I know it’s a fairly high TRT dose.

First Cycle: 15 weeks.
(TRT) + Test E 300mg a week (split mon+thurs)… So 475mg “test” a week, albeit different esters.

Last 6 weeks: winstrol 50mg day.

E2 control - 0.5mg adex (mon + thurs)… I had gyno surgery 8 years ago (puberty), so less chance of developing it now but not impossible. Also got nolva on hand for peace of mind, do not expect to use it but would rather have it.

Liver support - Tudca and NAC Daily (when running the winstrol and 2 weeks after)… Daily, I also take omega 3 fish oil, multivitamin and vitamin b6 (to keep prolactin In normal range).

Just wondering thoughts In general and thoughts on AI? (whether to start with it few weeks in or get bloods done 6 weeks in… and then add AI if needed?)


Why use winstrol? It seems like var or tbol are better compounds with similar outcomes, but less sides.

Well sides are user and dose dependent so it’s all relative in a way. And these are mild compounds in comparison to like dbol/tren for example. I’m Not sure I agree anavar/tbol are better compounds then winstrol, it’s one of the most popular AAS out there with a proven track record in bulking and cutting. I know an endo who swears by it for dry lean gains when run alongside a base of test.

Anavar is very expensive in comparison to winstrol (in the UK), which is a factor. Winstrol is more powerful than anavar and also arguably gives better gains. Most cases I’ve read the sides with winstrol have been dry joints. I was thinking of adding low dose deca to counter this but wanted to see how I got on with it first.

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You are correct on price. Var and Tbol are both a lot more money than Winny. I have really only anecdotal knowledge on Winny. I have heard a few say it made them feel not so optimal after a few weeks, and most report joint issues. I haven’t heard these issues with Var or Tbol. I am probably more against me using Winny as I am into athletics (mostly powerlifting) more than looks, and Winny has negatives on performance, but will make you look good.

As for AI, do you use one for TRT? Understanding it’s impact on you will help. I seem to do fine high test with no AI, but that isn’t everyone.

I don’t know about dbol in this comparison. I thought Winny was worse in a few aspects than dbol. Things like impact to lipids are pretty bad with Winny. I think it is probably safer than orals like halo or drol, but dbol is probably a wash between the two.

Dbol is arguably known as gyno and water retention in a bottle. No doubt it’s a very powerful and effective steroid but not for me from the research I’ve done into it.

I’m not an AI for my TRT And it’s not necessary for a proper TRT protocol. A TRT dose to put you in a “normal” T level shouldn’t push E2 high enough to require an AI. lowering the test dose would be be the better solution over an AI.

I also had gyno surgery 8 or so years ago, I have no/very little gland to agitate so It’s less of a problem for me but something I’m still very wary and aware of obviously.

Agree, the impacts on E2 are significant. This impacts some more than others. Many do fine being on a TRT dose with Dbol, as the E2 is manageable with lower test doses. There are pros and cons to most of these compounds. If you have E2 issues, then Dbol isn’t favorable.

Agree. I use no AI anymore. From lab work I saw improvement in liver, and lipids dropping the AI.

Always worth being careful. Having nolva on hand is smart.

Yeah I’ve got some nolva on hand just in case but I don’t intend to have to use it. I’ve heard ralox is better and has no impact alongside an AI, unlike nolva, which does.

An AI should be more than sufficient to keep E2 under control. I also think too many guys way overdose their AI/frequency, risking crashing E2 or lowering it too much unnecessarily. Many cycle without bloodwork and that’s just a guessing game.

Yup this is a little higher than norm but may be necessary for you. How do labs look?

Sounds reasonably but I agree with @mnben87 that its not a great beginner oral.

While thats not crazy high for E2 control it still may be more than you need.

Kind of a silly an obvious statement. Still, there are known degrees and increased side effect profiles for the average user. Each drug carries its own stigma. IMO dbol is more mild especially when user responsibly and not near the level of tren etc.

I would disagree.

TRT 175mg a week plus HCG puts my TT at 16nmol. With FT, SHBG, E2 and everything else in normal range. I’m in the U.K. so not sure off top of my head what that is in states equivalent…

I think I’m gona do 0.5mg adex a week and get bloods mid cycle to see where I’m at and keep
An eye on any symptons that might require a change in AI dosage.

Not sure why dbol has ended up being discussed Here so much. It’s a heavy aromatiser so something I’m Choosing to stay away from. No doubt it’s a good choice for some and “each to their own” etc, but on paper, not for me.

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Any reason for adding test E? If you’re on Sust why not just up the dose to what you need. Adding another ester may complicate things.
I wouldn’t use Winny. I’ve used it and it was hell on my joints, ending up with a proper injury.
I also wouldn’t use an AI automatically. See if you need it first.

I’d rather be on a single Ester compound like test E for TRT, but can’t unfortunately as in the UK on prescribed TRT it’s 4-5x the cost of Sustanon, same with test C.

I’m obviously aware of the different esters and it makes sense to just do test E or just Sustanon but I want to keep upto speed with my Sustanon that’s prescribed, and to keep a “constant” and do the test E on top just seems easier to me. I don’t want my private TRT doc to know I’m “blasting” so I’l be Working bloods around it etc.

Don’t take the TUDCA after you’re done with the winstrol. You’ll do more harm than good. Otherwise this looks fine.

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