T Nation

TRT and Anxiety

Hello folks. I am 40 years old and I have been training for 22 years. I tried testosterone replacement therapy about 2 years ago. i went to a doctor that didn’t take insurance (less BS at the time) and he suggested the testosterone pellets(rare now I have learned). They place them in your buttocks and they last for about 6 months. It went ok at first, however I did notice i was getting headaches, then i started the milk thistle and nolvadex-xt and that seemed to help.

This continued for about 1.5 years, then…I didn’t go back and get the pellets at the 6 month mark and waited till about 8 months(i was doing alot of intense interval training for the SWAT team at the time as well). Then…out of the blue, i started having BAD anxiety, enough to have to go to the DR. and get Xanex! I had never experienced this before and it freaked me out.

I wont go into it, but to say, it was BAD.I then went back and got the pellets, thinking maybe the low test could cause the anxiety, however it didn’t go away immediatly. Its now been 7 months later and the anxiety is alot better, but still having trouble sleeping. I am cluless…was it the low test with the intense interval training that brought my seratonin way down and on-set the anxiety?

was it the ephdra drinks and not enough sleep? genetic, what?? Any assistance with this would greatly be appreciated! I am going to read the Brain diet suggested by Dr Berardi at Precision Nutrition. Again any suggestions please, thks!!

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Actually, Testosterone and sex hormones in general are very crucial to brain function. A lack of testosterone can reduce synaptic density and hence reduce the amount of neurotransmitters that the brain can use in general.

Also, high testosterone has been correlated with a decrease of dopamine presence in the amygdala which is the nerve center for the fight/flight/fear response and I am betting balls on nuts that’s where your anxiety was coming from.

In short get your T-levels up and your anxiety will drop if not disappear completely. Anxiety is one of the worse mental afflictions one can have. Those who have it, know what it is to live in terror for no apparent reason what so ever. Anything to get rid of it is welcome.

I bet that most men who suffer from anxiety and/or depression would be found to have low testosterone. I bet you could replace have the country’s SSRI prescriptions with T-replacement. Our society and stressful life style almost literally beat the testosterone out of us.

Hello CFF: I graduated from my first Police school 1960. Yep I’m 65

First, I presently take a Multi, 3x 1000 C’s a day, 3 or 4 Magns/Potas in and asportate base, and 12 fish oil @ day. To help clear in your system may I suggest the Proanthanol Bio Complex(a super anti oxidant that crosses the blood brain barrier) 100 mg 2@day from Life plus.com. For what I think is the best safe protein go with the Metabolic Drive from this site.

We do aerobics to live longer, strength/weights to live better, and for you and I to bust better & stronger.

Start there, and PM me if you want.

First off, were you diagnosed as hypogonadal when you saw the doctor for HRT?

I am 28 years old and have been hypogonadal since age 22. I do not know why you would bother with antiquated testosterone replacement forms such as pellets, injections, and patches, when you can simply take Androgel or Testim, both of which are VERY effective and do not cause peaks and valleys in testosterone levels and in turn, less aromatization of testosterone.

When I first was diagnosed with secondary (pituitary) hypogonadism by my urologist-andrologist, he gave me a tiny bit of Clomid, half a tab per day. This brought my FSH and LH values to normal levels and in turn, my T value from 240 to 790 ng/dL in one month. Since that time, I have used Androgel and my T value is usually ~700 - 900 while using 7.5 g of gel per day.

I also do not think TRT is something toexperiment with, like something to take when you are in the mood to use it. It should be used for its purpose, to treat diseases and disorders.

Low T does cause anxiety. When I first became hypogonadal, life sucked for almost a year until I found the right doctor.

I suggest seeing a urologist or endocrinologist for TRT, or better yet, a urologist with a fellowship in andrology.

“I am 28 years old and have been hypogonadal since age 22. I do not know why you would bother with antiquated testosterone replacement forms such as pellets, injections, and patches, when you can simply take Androgel or Testim, both of which are VERY effective and do not cause peaks and valleys in testosterone levels and in turn, less aromatization of testosterone.”

I think it’s great that the “gel” works for you and that’s great because I knew there had to be another guy out there who liked it. That Brad guy was the first-is that you Brad?

But just so you know…

The reason people waste their time with injections is because they are far superior.

I posted this comment in another forum to that guy Brad who loves to rub that goop on his body and run around the house fanning himself dry, lol

That gel doesn’t dry “instantly”, it’s more like an hour, (and then you feel like you rubbed a wet popsicle on your body for the entire rest of the day.)

The reason many doctors don’t prescribe the injections anymore and push that crappy gel instead is because the gel has been shown in clinical studies to keep your levels around a 500 max top end (which is still basically ‘low normal’ at best) It makes the doctors feel safe about putting you on it, but it doesn’t do shit for your libito, your mood or your LBM… it does drain your freggin’ wallet 10 times faster than injections though!! LOL That’s the other reason they push it- because the pharmacy giants TELL them to push it. It is VERY profitable.

Shall I go on??? LOL

I’m glad ole’ Bradley (and you) got your money’s worth outta that gooey tooth paste, but if you ask 10 other guys which one they prefer, 9 out of 10 will tell you that the injections are real Testosterone replacement, and the gels and patches are just duct tape. Duct Tape? Yea, the doctor puts it over your mouth to shut you up and get you out of his office so he doesn’t have to set you up with a solid real HRT plan that works (that would require he gain more knowledge about the subject and actually listen to his patients concerns instead of the media)

There’s a doctor online who writes a lot of protocol papers (for other doctors to learn from) all about HRT, (Dr. Crisler) the things he says are in line with what actually works and makes sense. I have done a lot of reserch on it over the past year, and his approach is the best I’ve seen. Let’s be honest for a change… weekly and even better- “twice weekly” injections are worlds better than the patches and gels. (and the doctors KNOW they are)

PS> being at 7-900 is great. But most men would not get that result from 7.5 gel. The average (according to the endo studies online) is about 5-600. and for some reason even that number seems to slip over time requiring more.

The important point is this:

To TRULY feel at your best you want a result of closer to 1,000 or more. The gels just aren’t designed to get you there.

Uh, I do not know about that. I used 10 grams once and that got me to 1,300, hence why I now use 7.5 grams. The gel drys in a few minutes, if that. I have had the gel dry within under a minute at times. It is funny you mention clinical trials.

Some clinical trials with Androgel have had men reach levels of >1,300 with 10 grams of gel. Another guy who wrote an article for Elite Fitness also reached over 1,000 ng/dL with 2.5 grams of gel per day! I have no idea what you are talking about and neither do you!

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Uh, I do not know about that. I used 10 grams once and that got me to 1,300, hence why I now use 7.5 grams. The gel drys in a few minutes, if that. I have had the gel dry within under a minute at times. It is funny you mention clinical trials.

Some clinical trials with Androgel have had men reach levels of >1,300 with 10 grams of gel. Another guy who wrote an article for Elite Fitness also reached over 1,000 ng/dL with 2.5 grams of gel per day! I have no idea what you are talking about and neither do you! [/quote]

“why you would bother with antiquated testosterone replacement forms such … injections …”

Transdermals [patch|gel|cream] have problems for many. I have listed these before:

-cost is 10 times more than injections or more
-some simply do not absorb much at all, does not work
-some absorb well at first then not later on, T changes skin
-transdermals create higher levels or E than injections
-train, sweat and shower, that rules out gels and creams
-some work out doors and sweat a lot, as above
-some get rashes from the patch [adhesive] or the gels
-some find the application tedious

The cost factor for transdermals is huge for those who do not have TRT drug coverage.

Some who cannot absorb transdermals have medical conditions that lead to that - mechanisms probably not understood at all. The classic example is those who have hypothyroidism.

If transdermals work, this shuts down the HPTA, no LH and the testes shrink, over time there can be structural degradation and infertility. There is only one method to treat this that can be used long term. That is injecting hCG - best done as 250iu SC EOD. If one is injecting hCG EOD, it is sort of brain dead to be avoiding T injection by using transdermals.

Don’t be so judgmental about things that you do not understand.

Injecting T is the gold standard. What you inject, you get. With transdermals, the amount absorbed cannot be predicted. It is nice that gels work for you.

[quote]CAROLINAFLATFOOT wrote:
Hello folks. I am 40 years old and I have been training for 22 years. I tried testosterone replacement therapy about 2 years ago. i went to a doctor that didn’t take insurance (less BS at the time) and he suggested the testosterone pellets(rare now I have learned). They place them in your buttocks and they last for about 6 months. It went ok at first, however I did notice i was getting headaches, then i started the milk thistle and nolvadex-xt and that seemed to help.

This continued for about 1.5 years, then…I didn’t go back and get the pellets at the 6 month mark and waited till about 8 months(i was doing alot of intense interval training for the SWAT team at the time as well). Then…out of the blue, i started having BAD anxiety, enough to have to go to the DR. and get Xanex! I had never experienced this before and it freaked me out.

I wont go into it, but to say, it was BAD.I then went back and got the pellets, thinking maybe the low test could cause the anxiety, however it didn’t go away immediatly. Its now been 7 months later and the anxiety is alot better, but still having trouble sleeping. I am cluless…was it the low test with the intense interval training that brought my seratonin way down and on-set the anxiety?

was it the ephdra drinks and not enough sleep? genetic, what?? Any assistance with this would greatly be appreciated! I am going to read the Brain diet suggested by Dr Berardi at Precision Nutrition. Again any suggestions please, thks!![/quote]

TRT is HRT. The goals of HRT are to restore hormones and restore a workable balance of the hormones. T alone eliminates LH, the result is shrunken testes. hCG is needed to restore the action of LH. As long as you are needing to inject hCG, you might as well inject your T. TRT causes estradiol [E2] to rise and this can cause apathy, low energy, passiveness, depression, brain fog, low libido, ED etc, all of the problems of hypogonadism, even with high TT and FT levels. E2 has to be lowered to be in balance with T so you can live a normal life. This has to be done with an aromatase inhibitor [AI]. The AI of choice is an oral drug, Arimidex. Anastrozole is the chemical name for Arimidex. There is an optimal level for E2 when T levels are restored, so the dosing of the AI should be adjusted to get to an optimal level. E2 levels do not need to be above lab normal [statistical] ranges to be a problem. You could have a “normal” E2=37 [0-53 pg/ml] and have all of those problems that I listed with T levels at the high end of the range or over. Most docs will see that E2 level and say that that is normal and dismiss your concerns and symptoms, sending you packing with Viagra and a SSRI anti depressant that will make matters worse.

Any doctor who thinks that pellets in your ass every six months is medical care is doing medical harm. You have to be injecting hCG and taking anastrozole every other day [EOD]. There is no six month cruise control. Doctors mostly do not understand the HRT dimensions of TRT.

You need to find a doctor who is not an idiot, and that can be hard to do when it comes to TRT. You need to learn a lot to manage your own care and your doctor relationship. No short cuts except for a very few who hit a doctor the first time who knows how and will do T+hCG+AI

Thanks KSman- I know you didn’t jump in on my acount, but you saved me the trouble of surfing and gathering all that stuff (which I would have done just for spite, LOLOLOL)

great post by the way. (directly above- cause it’s TRUE.)

As far as Bricnyce goes- it probably IS the same guy from that other post. LOLOLOL

Bricnyce- Your info on the clinical trials is wrong. Your personal experience is unique, and also could just be bs. if it’s true for you, great. That makes ONE happy customer. The gel is EVERY BIT THE SKICKY NON DRYING NIGHTMARE I said it is and more. It gets on your clothes, your sheets, your couch, your dog… LOLOLOL so stop lying about it. Have you got stock in that company or something??? ROTFLMAO

I know exactly what I’m talking about Mr. Smarty Pants. I used it… every piece of furniture in my damn house has tried it. Now go give your wife a beard and sideburns.

I WENT TO A NEW UROLOGIST RECENTLY AND HE RECOMMENDED TAKING CLOMID FOR A MONTH OR SO, THEN BACK TO THE T INJECTIONS. I HAVE TO BE HONEST GUYS…THE WHOLE THING IS FRUSTRATING. WHAT DOES CLOMID DO, RAISE YOUR HCG? REDUCE ESTROGEN? IT ALL GETS A LITTLE CONFUSING. IT MAKES ME REGRET EVER EVEN STARTING THE STUFF. I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO NORMAL, CURRENTLY MY BLOOD TEST SHOW MY TEST AT 170, WAY LOW RIGHT? THATS BECAUSE THE PELLETS HAVE WORN OFF. SO…THE WIVE WANTS TO TRY FOR ANOTHER BABY, SO NO TEST. FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS THE DOC SAYS, TO GET THE S COUNT BACK UP. NOW, I JUST HAVE TO SURVIVE FOR 6 MONTHS. SO…TEST INJESTIONS REGUARLY AND WITH CLOMID A FEW MONTHS A YEAR ARE NOT ENOUGH??? THESE DOC’S ALL HAVE DIFFERENT PROTOCOL. THANKS GUYS!

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I love how everyone on here became an MD themselves.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I love how everyone on here became an MD themselves. [/quote]

Some of these guys ARE MD’s, they just don’t bother to brag about it. If your feelings are hurt, it’s probably from the gels you’re applying turning to Estrogen. You might want to get that checked.

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Dude, ease up. No need to SHOUT.

Why are you asking about Clomid here? You should be asking your doctor these questions and if he’s not willing or able to answer them to your satisfaction, then you need to ask yourself why you’re blindly following his recommendations.

You can easily find what Clomid is and what it does by doing a little basic research on your own. The reason I say that is because educating yourself about TRT and all of its aspects should be your number one priority. You’ll never know if what your doctor is saying makes sense or not if you don’t put the time and effort into educating yourself beyond a few posts in a bodybuilding forum.

Going on TRT isn’t like taking a couple of aspirin because you have a headache. You’re screwing around with one of the most fundamental and complicated systems in your body and if you decide to do that in total ignorance, then you’re playing Russian roulette with your health and if you end up with a bad result, you’ll have no one to blame but yourself. It’s your body and your life and you need to take responsibility for your own health.

The attitude he had about Clomid hit me the same way happydog…

I mean, geez… with just 7 keystrokes put in the google window he could have had TONS of places to glean MASSIVE amounts of info, research, trials, personal blog discussions, etc, etc…

But in a lazy tantrum he just cries in confunsion and keeps paying doctor ‘whatever his name is’ to brush him off with a single uncaring sentence. “Hello and goodbye dumb patient, LOL. I know I’m your doctor but I don’t know what to tell you, 'cause I never studied HRT in detail. But it’s better to look like I did, so I’ll make up a protocol… ummm… ok, wait 6 months then maybe if you don’t just forget about this and stop bugging me I can come up with a new excuse to put you off when you bring it up again in 6 months. sound good?” LOLOLOLOL

Tawney, respond to me if you are not totally afraid of me.

Most of you guys on here are big fat retards who have no idea what they are talking about. The gel causes less aromatization than injections and takes literally about 30 seconds or less to dry. And to Tawney, the normal range for testosterone is 300 to 1200 ng/dL. Anything over this range is considered supraphysiological. Androgel has cost me 25 to 45 bucks per month depending on the insurance I had at the time. Sucker.

There have been a couple of knocks on this thread against pellets. While I may have great respect for the individuals who spoke against them, I disagree. My MD specializes in HRT and he recommended them. I was hesitant to go that route because of the negative things I had read here as well as some by Crisler.

All I can say is my experience has been nothing but great. I have had it done twice, once every six months. It is a quick, simple proceedure with little discomfort. My TT numbers have gone from low-normal to slightly above the upper end of the high-normal range. I was on Adex before starting TRT and there has been zero problem with T to E conversion. In fact, my E2 is lower than when I started the pellets.

Shrinkage has been minimal in my case and my doctor has offered Clomid if I feel I need it (so far, I feel I do not).

Pellets, administered my a knowledgeable HRT specialist who monitors your levels and your overall well-being, offer some distinct advantages over other methods of TRT.

Are pellets the best method of TRT, superior above all else? I have no idea because I never tried the others. All I know is most people who have a negative opinion of them have never tried them.