T Nation

TRT 1 Year Update


@alphagunner what’s up man? Long time. Hope your well.

So I just take the extra zinc and the 5000 IU D3 on injection day. And I seem to be fine with e2 now. I still take multi vitamin everyday. And reduced lemon water 1-2 a week.


Based on the different E2 levels how did you feel your bloat was. Like lower the e2, the less the bloat?


My bloat comes from after eating certain foods.
I have experienced water retention at the beginning while dialing in and while I was using arimidex which created more problems. How long are you on trt and last protocol?


Do you feel like the cracking in the joints is a normal type “pop” (like cracking your knuckles) when you move them? Is it painful or does it feel dry, meaning that the joints feel like you are rubbing bone on bone all the time, or does it just click if the joint doesn’t move for a while then clicks once or twice and is good for a while?

Fish oils (Omega 3’s) are very useful in helping to keep the joints libricated and I’m a little sursprised by your cardiologist statements. It sounds like you could also use the increase in HDL, which would be another benefit of supplementing omega 3. Two servings of fish a week is a good idea, but 3-4 would be a better one. Not all fish are high in fat, and there are others that could pose a risk of over consuming mercury. What species are you eating?


[quote=“bmbrady77, post:165, topic:248064”]
does it just click if the joint doesn’t move for a while then clicks once or twice and is good for a while?
[/quote] Bingo. Though went it first started 2 months ago it was excessive clicking and was not good for a while.

No pain. Does not feel dry. i gauge my dryness by checking all the extra skin on my elbows. Prior to trt they used to get very dry in the winter. Right now they look great. I also look at knees - looks good.

Fish - I have tried perch, salmon. I read anchovies are great - low mercury high omega 3.
I seem to get what costco has. Any suggestions? I like to try others.

I have fish oil caps from coscto - kirkland brand 1 gram.
The only proven thing really is a statin. Can the fish oil help my numbers look good - yes. because i have taken them b4 and it helps my numbers. But if numbers are bad I dont want the fish oil to mask them and prevent me from getting the only proven benefits from a statin.
Not sure if i am thinking of it the right way. In other words, fish oil improves number bit is it actually doing anything?

and also, i have no plaque build up after 42 years. so why should i try to better my hdl? however my body is working, it is fine - so far… i do have NAFLD that why i think my triglycerides get elevated.


But if it helps the “numbers” that is the indicator that its working. What am I missing here? We take everything to change the numbers to be healthier. Its the point of taking them.

Also Id be willing to bet that the kirkland brand isnt very good quality. Id also go for something a bit more high potency like Nordic Naturals. Not cheap but quality never is.


Just at Costco.lol.
Asians buying nature made fish oil in boat loads. Holy crap. Not sure if they resale them but they do have I believe the longest life expectancy.

And they are at a discount


@NH_Watts is dead on with his entire reply.

The Kirkland brand is not the best by a long shot. If you want to stay within a reasonable budget, and you like shopping at Costco (I do too), then opt for the Pure Alaska Omega Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil. This is sold at Costco as well. It’s more expensive, but a much better quality supplement.

As far as the clicking, it’s normal. My knees and elbows, as well as just about every joint in my fingers, have clicked when I move them a certain way, or if I force them too, since I was a small child. The old people used to say that it would cause arthritis if I kept popping them, but that has been proven as a fallacy. No truth to that whatsoever. It’s just your joints releasing excess Carbon Dioxide when the joint opens up. Perfectly normal. Nothing to worry about.

Now if you had pain and swelling associated with it, or if you had a dry bone on bone sensation all the time…different story.


@charlie12 I logged in just for you brother.

The clicking joint issue is something that I haven’t been able to kick. Its a fairly common issue with people who have overdosed on AI, if you look at the TRT forums. Some sad stuff though.

I still am very “clicky” despite switching to 115 a week and going IM. My e2 is definitely on the higher end, but I still “click” all the time. From what I read, low e2 causes the connective tissue to “harden” which would totally make sense why I have constant issues with golfers/tennis elbow, and have to stretch CONSTANTLY. hopefully one day it will return to normal, its “suppose” to, from what I have read. But I guess well see. For the time I am keeping my e2 in the higher range if possible.

My Knees are much better but I would say they are 80% of what they use to be, and they don’t seem to be healing any further. Its almost as if it kicked off early arthritis, although the doctor said there is no indication of anything like that on my imaging.

If it heals, it will probably takes years and years of your e2 being in healthy range. But I don’t know. I have hope. Hope all you guys are doing well. @NH_Watts

I will check back in in a month or so when I am more stable on this new protocol.

To fit with original Charlie post, I also have had increased libido and mood from IM. I am wondering if I have been approaching this all wrong. I dislike having to inject IM but I am doing shallow into my quad and deltoids. For now I like it, and I have not had any over e2 issues…

Note: i also injected around 150-200 for a few weeks, and i had no issues with e2. (was trying to get E2 up)

Ill be back in a few weeks. Until then, im still lurking around.


What size needle you use?

Btw alpha it appears the little crash of e2 I had when I switched to im was most likely due to lemon water and extra zinc. It was just a coincidence that I switched to im then.
And instead of varying doses to get whatever feeling I want I just do a subq same dosage once in a while. But with im I have constant libido.

Thanks also Brady and Watts. I saw that Alaskan salmon supp to at Costco. If I do fish oil I will get that one.


My point is if I truly have a screwed up lipid profile I would strongly consider a statin not fish oil. Statin are proven to have amazing heart protection benefits that go beyond lowering lab values. So I do not want fish oil to mask poor numbers. Fish oil studies are all over the place.


What do you think about this one and which do you think is better


I’ve compared those two before. I went with the Pure Alaska based on the reviews, and the fact that the Kirkland brand is comprised of oils extracted from a bunch of different species. The Pure Alaska is all from wild salmon. I think the Pure Alaska also had a little higher concentration of Omega 3 if I’m not mistaken.


same one I use for IM. 27G 5/8ths I think. It might be 1/2, ill check when I get home. Its a TB syringe basically.


@charlie12 is your wife still on metformin and how is that going for her? Does she smoke, does she have high blood pressure? What’s her sugar intake like? Is she diabetic? Prediabetic (Metabolic Syndrome)? How long has she been on the statin? Has it done anything for her cholesterol levels?

“The burden of atherosclerotic disease is a major public health problem in developed countries that is closely associated with the modern lifestyle, namely the hypercaloric diet and physical inactivity. Obesity, particularly visceral adiposity, is associated with the clustering of metabolic perturbations, which is termed the metabolic syndrome, and is associated with a substantially increased CHD risk. Perturbations of the metabolic syndrome including the LDL-C phenotype, low HDL-C, insulin resistance, and adipokines production are all potential pathways by which the immune system is activated.”


She took victoza Injections for a month but stopped recently. We noticed she would have vaginal dryness on the 1.8 mg dose.

Endo said she is probably insulin resistant. A1c is great. Glucose was just under100 and now is just under 90. She is obese.
Blood pressure ok. No smoking ever.
She was taking 1500 mg met reduced to 750 while on victoza not back to 1500. She takes 750 mg xr 2x a day.
The metformin and t4 meds we believe helped her lose 15 pounds in about 3 months. This with very little exercise. She is the type that starts to exercise and end up doing it once in a week. But she had for pain that prohibited exercise. That’s why she tried victoza to help her lose more weight so she can exercise if the pain gone.

She was taking zocor for at least 10 years. Dr recently switched to crestor 20 mg in light of the plaque they discovered.
On last check before crestor she only had elevated LDL. Her cholesterol was creeping up 1-2 years ago on zocor 20 mg so they upped her to 40 mg and it helped the cholesterol.

Her younger brother 38 had a heart attack last month. Need a stent. He is ok obese and even had weight loss surgery and lost a lot weight. Still had the heart attack. He was never on a statin.
I gather the statin my wife was in helped tremendously or she would be in deep trouble now.

I remember 3 years ago we both went to cardiologist . He did carotid scan on me and not my wife. I questioned this as she is obese and he said because she is on a statin.

After her brothers heart attack I booked appointment for her. They did echo, carotid, and CT angiogram and pet cardiac. Man it’s good to have insurance.
Everything fine except the plaque they found ( less than 25 percent all around) and the calcium score


What a mess charlie. I am sorry. That carotid scan on her would have been worth while.


She will be fine. Crestor is one of the best. Even the president is on it.

It’s a huge wake up call for her. I hope she continues to lose weight.

Btw I handle all medical issues for my wife and 3 kids. I read alot. :crazy_face::crazy_face:


I know that statins can lower testosterone in men. Im not sure about females.


@physioLojik since starting t4 25 mcg I developed shoulder pain. Just read that it may be frozen shoulder and possible related to thyroid.

Have you seen this? I am 3 weeks in with the t4. Could it be while my thyroid is getting better that I have this shoulder issue temporarily?

The funny thing is my wife got the pain too that started before mine. She also started t4 but 2-3 months ago.