T Nation

Trouble with wimmins

I throw myself on the mercy of the
T-vixens. And since they have none, I expect to be ripped to shreds. In my present mood, that actually sounds appealing. I have been through any number of relationships, none of which have worked out. Fine, that’s the way it goes. I have also been in relationships that were purely physical, and held nothing else. My problem is simple. Last year I met a woman whom I find extremely intriguing. Actually, intoxicating is a better word. When I’m around her, I just sort of drink in her essence. We get along fine, and people who see us together are always asking if we’re dating, which may have made her a bit skittish. Anyways, I am having no success whatsoever in figuring her out. As far as I can tell, she wants to be friends, and she artfully deflects my attempts to even broach the matter with her. Yet she is always telling me to give her a call so we can get together. I know some women test men to see whether or not they’re in it for the long haul, or a one-night stand. I also know that some women like to let men down easy, and some just like the attention they get from potential suitors. So far, I have had zero luck figuring out what she is doing. A sign, something, anything, would be useful. I’ve seen any number of girls look at their caller i.d., and say “Why won’t he just leave me alone?” I have too much pride to be that person, but I don’t want to give up, either. I feel like I’m John Cusaks’ character in “High Fidelity” when he’s proposing to his girlfriend. “I’ve had the fantasy. I’m tired of the fantasy. I want the reality, and that’s you.” Kind of a rambling post, I know, but it’s been a long night, lubricated by scotch and soda. And before she can say it, Karma, I do have my balls, I know where to find them, but I don’t want to royally screw up and chase this woman out of life. Now let me climb into my asbestos underwear to prepare for the flamefest.

Let me warn you that this subject is one of my pet peeves. I hope my tone doesn’t put you off.

“she artfully deflects my attempts to even broach the matter with her.” Seems pretty clear. Unfortunately, Paul, there are women who keep a bevy of male admirers on call to satisfy their need for attention. Some accept dinners, gifts, and vacations from their cuckolded harem.

The surest way to test whether she has a genuine interest in you is to let her know you’re dating and screwing other women (if you’re not, and are waiting on her, then you really do need to go look for your balls).

I hate to bring up the obvious Paul…but have you asked her out? Until you do that…it may remain a mystery…


a) Don’t post while drunk
b) Don’t chase women who play games

If she was interested, you would know by now. If you can’t figure her out, as you say, she only wants some friendship.
Did you ever hear how some women have gay male friends? They get a pal and attention with no pressure. You have to be a challenge to women, not a pushover.

I agree with Montrosefan. If you like her so much and you want her so badly then you’ll probably do anything it takes to get her.

I’m in somewhat of the same dilemma right now except I said to myself on Friday “if this is gonna go anywhere I’m gonna have to tell her how I feel.” So Friday afternoon after spending the whole day with her I decided to tell her how I felt right before I left for the weekend. So as I was leaving I said “I gotta tell you something…I really like you and want something to happen with us.” I just walked away and I won’t see her again until Monday. Ballsiest move I’ve ever made and hopefully she’ll be thinking about it all weekend.

Sorry for posting that long dissertation but I think thats somewhat like what you should do. Just tell her, be blunt, don’t play mind games.

What do you have to lose? Just another friend that you coulda, shoulda, woulda had something with.

Chrismcl - Damn, that’s good. I’m going to have to steal it from you. I hope it works out for you, man. The more I reflect on this in a less inebriated state, the more I see the little details. I’m thinking that she’s comfortable being friends, and that’s it.

Every heterosexual male has probably found himself in a similar situation at least once in his dating life. I think it’s unlikely that you’re going to have a romantic relationship with this girl because too much time has passed. You’re just a friend to her. My advice is to break off all contact. Being around her will only upset you. Don’t do that to yourself. Good luck, bro. We’ve all been there.

Steal away.

Now that you’ve concluded that you’re pretty sure shes comfortable just being friends (because we can never be too sure with women) you have to ask yourself if you’re comfortable just being friends. The reason I came out and told her how I felt was because I’m sick of having been single for the what seems like an eternity (or close to it). So instead of taking it slowly and ending up moving into the “I like you like a friend, I feel like you’re almost my brother” area (which I always manage to do), I decided to grow a pair of balls and tell her.

So yeah, if you’re comfortable with having just another friend, then play it slowly, and maybe down the road she’ll open up. But if you’re sick of being single and desperate/on the brink of being desperate (like me) then tell her.

Chris- Yeah, I’ve been down that road before, and it ain’t fun. I wound up telling a girl that I didn’t want to see her at all, and she knew why. Worked out okay, a couple of years later, and we actually talk from time to time, we’re comfortable as friends now. It just kind of sucks that there’s these wonderful girls that I’m not around anymore.

the best thing you can do to raise this woman’s attraction level for you is not to tell her how you like her or come off desperate b/c that will repulse her. If you start calling/ seeing her less and seeing other women more, she may become more attracted to you unless you haven’t already ruined it by being “friends” with her for so long. If she views you as a “friend,” it means she has no attraction for you and views you as a girlfriend or someone she can spend time with to keep the guys she sleeps with jealous. The long and short of it is, women don’t want guys to tell them how much they want them; they want confident guys who are never desperate…

That take is slow thing works great…if you want to just be friends. If you’re interested romantically make that plainly clear as soon as you figure it out for yourself.

Trying to figure her out and all those subtle nuance things just muddy the water. Clear communication is how relationships develop. It shouldn’t be code breaking and mystery solving.

If you like the girl hold her hand, kiss her, act like a heterosexual male so she’s not confused trying to figure out where you stand.

I second not messing with women that play games. They just aren’t worth it. There are plenty of decent women out there, why waste your time on one that’s just giving you the run-around?

Ask yourself this…if she didn’t seem like such a challenge, would you be anywhere nearly as interested in her as you are now? I would bet money that you wouldn’t. Just be her friend and move on.

First, congrats to Chris on the ballsy move. A long of us have been there, and had to make a tough decision one way or another.

Go for it, dude. Just be honest with her. No half-steppin’. And don’t say it like you’re expecting her to say no. . . “It’s alright if you say no, and you can still be friends if that’s all you want, but…” That’s a sure way to get shot down. Say it with confidence. If she says yes, good. If she says no, you’ve got closure.

If she says no, take it as an official no, not as a “Persuade me,” or a “No, but keep having a hopeless crush on me.” If you still want to be friends with her, you can have a later conversation to say that, and that you don’t want there to be any awkwardness between the two of you. If she’s worth having as a friend, and she wants you as a friend and not just some guy to toy with, the friendship will survive that.

But don’t think about the “no.” Think about the “yes.”

Aighty then. Since you called me out, and wanted me to be nice and not reference your balls (or lack thereof), I’ll attempt to comply.

Seconding some of the things the guys have said already:
Don’t play games.
Don’t attempt to figure out if she flips her hair this way it means this, or if she flips it that way, it means that.
Be obvious.
Be blunt.
Be ruthless.
Be honest.
Speak your mind.
Decide where your personal boundries are and put her in a position where she must tell you where hers are.

My opinion? She’s not into you. If she wanted to date or fuck you, she’d have done it by now. I don’t buy this thing about girls playing a waiting game to see if a guy is in “it” for the long haul or in “it” for a one-night stand. That game is usually decided by the second (third, at the most) time she’s interacted with you. People know what they want. If they don’t act on it, they don’t want it badly enough. Doesn’t look like she wants you badly enough - she’s [quote]artfully[/quote] avoided the topic. HELLO MCFLY?! What does that tell you? Tells me you’re a great friend and some chick that’s into more than just your friendship will be very happy to call herself your girlfriend/wife one day.

“You know why women have platonic male friends? 'Cause ya just never know.Ya just never know.”

-Chris Rock

You know how guys say “I’ll call you” and don’t? Women do it too.
Take her for what she’s worth…have a good dinner with her, have fun, and don’t call her unless she calls you if you’re expecting or wanting more.

This sounds similar to a situation I was in a few years back. There was this girl on campus (a hot volleyball chick) that I had my eye on for quite some time but had never spoken to (although I probably had ample opportunities with us both being athletes). I finally worked up the balls to just approach her and ask her out. Immediately I got the “I’m not wanting to date right now and really need to concentrate on my academics” line. Well being just stupid enough not to take no for an answer (hey she was a 6’ 1" blonde volleyball player) I insisted and actually got a date which ended up being a total dud because she had her mind made up about me already. When asking for the second date I just got more of the “not wanting to date right now” line. Well I just left it at that and we decided to be friends. I would call her every once in a while and would see her around campus but that was about it. Then I made my big mistake, I did the “I’ve got some things I need to tell you” bit and really spilled my heart. That night I did find out that she had been dating someone for several months. Of course it just freaked her out, but the funny thing was that she stayed in contact with me! After we both graduated we moved off, but remarkably I worked in the same town she moved to. No, I didn’t follow her, I just moved back to my hometown, she was thousands of miles from her hometown. I got several e-mails from her over that period of time saying “You never write me anymore” along with the run down of everything she was up to, but do you think she ever made one effort to see me during that time? Not once. After college I only saw her once, in traffic! She was always writing me about her boyfriend and then would tell me when they were having troubles and that they were breaking up. I finally just got pissed off about being so used and manipulated that I wrote her (she had moved back to California at that point) and said this is it, you won’t be hearing from me ever again. At that point I wasn’t really being led on because I knew how she felt about me, but it made me mad how she always kept me on a line that she knew she could go to me when she needed a nice guy compliment her when she needed it.

My point in all this is this, if you can’t seem to figure out what a woman thinks about you, or she always seems to crave your attention but is not willing to do anything else SHE IS NOT INTERESTED. I learned this the hard way, and now I won’t make the same mistakes again. The best thing you can do is either to cut it off completely or start paying less attention to her, find other chicks to date, and if you are still in contact with the woman let her know you are dating others.

Funny thing is that all those times she was “concentrating on her academics” she was pre-med and I was not. Now she is teaching elementary school (last I heard) and I’m the one in Med school!

Paul, I have to agree with Peter. (Sounds like you guys are the 12 deciples or better, Where’s Mary?) Anyway… I wouldn’t tell her yet. I would get her interested first. Some girls like what they can’t have. You need to sport some hot, yet classy, chicks in front of her. Not obviously, of course. I’ve seen it work so many times. You have to make youself a hot commodity. Don’t gross her out with ghorry details, just let her see some ladies flirting with you.
I would use telling her as a last resort. Don’t make yourself desperate. Let her see that you have plenty of other options. If it appears you are dating or interested in other women then, when you do tell her you won’t look needy.
Hope this helps!

The funny thing is, I 've got a father and grandmother looking over my shoulder, saying “Ahboy, when you get married, eh?” It’s interesting and informative to hear so many different perspectives. We all have such different experiences that we’ve been shaped by, it really shows in what we say. My one question is this; Whoever said that honesty is the best policy? 'Cause from what I’ve heard from just about everyone here is that is bullshit!!!