Trouble Understanding 5/3/1/ Workouts

As I continue to read and search more questions are being answered. I’m going to attempt to put together a BBB spreadsheet and I’d love your thoughts on it.

That’s its biggest failing @simo74, and I’ve said similar before. The original book is great. It gives you all the information you need and it’s a program that will keep you getting stronger over a long time. Beyond is good, but doesn’t add anything essential and starts to make things more complicated with all the options. My understanding of Forever is that if you have a sound understanding of 531 it’s invaluable if you don’t want to have to think much and just pick cool sounding templates to run.

Give Forever to someone with little strength training experience and it isn’t going to be much other than confusing.

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Most times I go into the CT section here is because I can never quite believe how disarmingly inane many of the questions are. Jim’s section has nothing on it. Seriously. Jim’s questions are usually a variation of, hey I’m doing your program in the exact opposite way you intended can you reassure me that it’s ok. The ones CT cops are more like, my left toenail usually grows faster than my beard and I don’t like petunias except in a salad, so how should I microload bodyweight exercises because I’m natural.

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I think @wanna_be is worried that he has so many questions to ask, if he opens the flood gates it may be hard to stop the outpouring !!

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That, and like I said earlier I want to have a well thought out question, that does not waste anyone’s time. I need to narrow my “General” confusion.

When guys like @T3hPwnisher offer up advice, I’m not looking to waste their time with a silly question that I could answer by more reading and comprehending.

Had I known my general rant/confusion would be followed with such experienced lifters as the ones posting offering advice I’d have waited to post that :joy:

This 100%.
If you start with the original book and do the program for a while and learn all the lingo then the new book and programs make more sense.
Beyond and the introduction of jokers deff was the start of everyone complicating everything !!

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The first book is pretty much a much longer version of his 2009 article on this site. It is not useful if you’ve read the article imo.

As far as I know, he abandoned almost everything he introduced in the second book except for using “athletic” stuff like jumps and med. balls in your program.

If the jargon is confusing then I’d suggest you make a list and ask people who’ve run several 5/3/1 programs or use its ideas in some part of their programming.

But I strongly recommend that you don’t spend time looking for the books or trying to actually buy them.

The second book is really confusing to read iirc. Far more confusing than 5/3/1 Forever. 5/3/1 Forever attempts to be coherent- the second book seemed like Wendler taking a bunch of stuff he wrote online in various places and putting them into a book.

But I am offering to help with that exact kind of question.

I want to help you with this method.

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If you are meaning Beyond as the second one, FSL and jokers are still pretty rampant.

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Doesn’t the beyond book also introduce the leader/anchor concept or was this from the forum ?

Not that book. First mention in books was Forever.

Fair enough must have read it on forum then. Its been a little while and I can barely remember what I did yesterday these days. lol

Oh, FSL sets first came from the Beyond book? I thought he first talked about the idea on one of his articles.

I’ve narrowed my interests down to Krypteia and BBB, although I know very little about either, I feel Krypteia is more of a mystery and I’d like to know more about it before making a choice.

Question 1:

Week 1. Template shows all movements done with “ 5’s PRO “. From what I’ve gathered pro = progression and the 5s means 5x5 (five sets of five reps). It also lists right below that, for the same day, “ 5x5 @ FSL “. Is he using the @ sign for and, or does it mean do an additional 5x5 using your FIRST non warm up/official set last, as a finisher? After typing this out it’s looking like do your 5x5 work sets and then do 5x5 using your first working weight of the first 5x5…

Question number 2:

The examples he’s chosen to help me understand this are labeled “3x3” yet I see nothing resembling 3 sets of 3 reps, which leads me to believe 3x3 does not mean what I think it does. Which also brings up my questioning my understanding of the previously mentioned 5x5 in question 1. He continues to produce samples of the 3x3 for different main lifts and none of them resemble what I beleive 3x3 is.

Question 3:

He mentions 3 “parts” each with a specific “cycle”. How long is a cycle? Are these cycles done consecutively? Example: finished part one cycle one, move onto part two or run part one cycle one AGAIN?

Question 4:

In his ever so confusing “3x3” examples, he has the percentages listed of weight used, since I see no other chart I’m assuming THESE are the percentages he wants used, only changing the TM percentage… at some point?

Question 5:

“Training max. Example for he bench press”

In the example, Part one is 300lbs (85%) done for 2 cycles.
Part two and three he lists different weights but no percentages, should I find what percentages those are in relation to the example’d 300 he used?
To throw a wrench into it he also lists 2 weights for part 2 one weight for each cycle… how do I get to this weight. (This is on page 240 if you have the book).

Question 6:

He mentions choosing the appropriate training max, sooooo should I go with his 85% of 1rm he seems to favor? When do I change the training max?

Question 7: I hate to even ask this question, but Heavy dumbbells are expensive lol. He seems to favor dumbell rows over BB rows to save lower back? Would this be outside the intended course of Krypteia to do BB rows vs DB? I currently do BB rows twice a week and have no lower back issues going heavy as possible every time… which is probably not a great idea, but I wanna be huge so…

Please forgive me @T3hPwnisher for the probably poorly written dumb questions, I tried to wait and get a little more thought and research behind my questions before I asked but you insisted, and for that I thank you.

5s pro means the main work is all sets of 5. It won’t be 5x5, but 3x5 (For example, week 1 would be 5x65%, 5x75% and 5x85% of TM before moving on to supplemental work).

He’s @ using it for “at”, so that’s going to be 5x5 AT First Set Last. 5 sets of 5 using your first non warm up/official set.

Without knowing the specific example, it’s difficult for me to explain. Do you have a page number I could look at?

3 weeks. The 5s week, the 3s week, and the 1s week.

Cycles are typically done 2 at a time before employing the 7 week protocol (making the name make sense, as it happens on the 7th week).

Page number would be helpful on this one again.

Light training max is never a bad idea. Adavance the training max at the end of the cycle. 5lbs for upperbody lifts, 10lbs for lower body.

I think it’d be a bit too taxing, given how the program works. Ever consider getting an adjustable dumbbell handle? They work well for rows.

No forgiveness necessary. I didn’t mean to skip your quesiton that actually has the page number: I just finished moving my whole home gym into a truck and I’m too gassed to dig out my copy of Forever, haha. I’ll grab it in the morning and give it a go.

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He may have. I just know he introduced the idea as a breakthrough in Beyond.

Page 234, bench press/OHP example. The last 5 sets of 5 are at 70%, when does the FSL get done because it stops after the 5x5 at 70%

I’m sorry, I’m not tracking any of that.

I’m currently plugging in numbers for day one (OHP) with a 85% TM of a 1RM I have no problem hitting and it seems all the sets would be stupid easy except maybe the last set of the 5x5 at 70%, maybe I’m underestimating the assistance lifts done between every set and his time limit. I’ve never trained like that so I’m unsure of how it will effect my performance.

I’ve actually been looking at them. I have been scared to drop the coin on something that appears so gimicky. I’ve never worked with a set before though.

Can you explain which part is confusing?

No no, not powerblock stuff: just a handle. One you can load with olympic plates.

This part “3 weeks. The 5s week, the 3s week, and the 1s week” part one mentions 2 cycles. You mention 3 weeks. One cycle is 3 weeks, he wants 2 cycles. So this first “part one” is 6 weeks long?

Which week is the 5’s 3’s and 1’s. What’s the difference? The last “working set” of 70% I’m assuming? If so is the weight changing to make it harder? If so by how much?

I’m so lost :man_facepalming: Thank you for taking the time to help! As you can see it’s much needed.

That’s even better! Those are way cheaper!

You asked what the 3 parts to a cycle were and how long it was.

1 .A cycle last for 3 weeks.
2. In the cycle there is 3 parts; a 5’s week and 3’s week and a 1’s week. In the original program the The 531 numbers referred to the the reps you are doing of the main movement during the workouts in that week. The 5’s week was 3 sets of 5 at increasing %. The 3 weeks was 3 sets of 3 at increasing % and the 1 week was a set of 5, followed by a set of 3, followed by a set of 1 at increasing %.

It gets a little confusing because later The program changed a little and instead of doing a 5 week a 3 week and a 1 week. The reps changed, for example in 5’s Pro every week was 3 sets of 5 reps. However what didn’t change is the % applied to the sets each week.

The program was originally designed to be once 3 week cycle followed by a delaod and then you increase the Training max by 5-10lbs and go again. This also changed later to be 2 cycles (6 weeks) followed by a deload hence the 7th week referred to above.