Trivium's Q&A

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Uh oh… you think I’ve had helpful stuff to say, yikes… J/K kind of :slight_smile:

I love wrist wraps. They not only help keep my wrist healthy, but also seem to help with my elbows and shoulders. I’m not sure why, but my best guess is that keep my wrist in a more mechanically advantageous position so other joints don’t take any additional undue strain. I use them for pressing and squatting on my top warmups and working sets. Just be sure you keep you keep your wrist strong since they’re not getting quite as much work.

I can only comment on the SSB. It turns goodmornings into an upper back exercise as much as anything. For squatting, it challenges my quads and upper back and forces me to stay upright or else the bar takes me forward. But I still have more leeway then I do with a front squat. I also love it for assistance work to take strain off my wrist and shoulders. If I do a westside style box squat with it, it feels more like a sumo deadlift than a squat with the muscles worked. [/quote]

I just feel like my wrists are weak and get beat up lately. My weights have been going up pretty quickly though, so I was wondering if maybe my pausing reps or the added strain is developing faster than my wrists ability to cope with the stress.

I know people always say stuff like “don’t use crutches if you don’t have to.” I am not sure if that mentality applies here though. I am not sure I could possibly add anything without taking anything else out at the moment, so extra wrist work may not be possible at this point in time.

I have been considering squatting with them too though. I feel like they may help my setup.

I squat double overhand. I do not wrap my thumbs. I also keep my head down and try to bounce a bit at the bottom to make sure I hit depth.

I would also like to try the SS bar. I do feel like when weights get heavy, I fall forward sometimes. I do seem to have trouble finding a consistent pain free set up sometimes though.

Thanks for the post!

EDIT: You have helped me directly in the past. You just don’t remember haha.

[quote]DonDooley wrote:

I guess I’ve always been of the mind that raw lifters generally don’t have issues on lockout. Raw lifters are usually weak below the knee. If you can lock out a moderately heavy squat, you should probably be able to lock out a heavy deadlift unless you have glaring glute/hip weakness. Then, maybe sumo might help. Most of what I have read, though, points to my previous conclusion.

See, this is what I was talking about. I personally would drop the weight and hit more volume on the DL; not rep-wise each set, but set wise and week-wise. If you’re only deadlifting once a week with 5/3/1 right now, it wouldn’t hurt to throw in sumo as an accessory exercise after squats probably. That’s just how I would run it, and I am by no means an expert, but I think the point of this thread was for you to get a lot of responses and base your plan on what you think the best answers are.

I’m of mixed emotions about it. I did the floor press fairly regularly in Afghanistan last year, and while I did get stronger, I think a lot of that simply had to do with hitting bench and bench variations more often. I feel like the thing that has aided my bench the most over the last year or so has been treating it like my deadlift training and continually getting the feel for heavier weights. Even just unracking and controlling 30 or 45 pounds above my max in the extended position has been beneficial. That, and working at or above 90% a few times a week. However, I’m weaker at lockout than off my chest, so maybe I’m doing it wrong.

Try seated good mornings some time. They’re really good for mid-back/hamstring strength, and being able to stay in a semi-bent over position seems to keep the bar stable. Also, I do a wider grip for good-mornings than for my squat and use my lats to pull the bar into my back like when I squat, so if you’re not doing that you might want to try it.

Like I said for 1, a lot of raw lifters are weak below the knee. Since you don’t seem to have this problem, I wouldn’t worry about deficit deads personally.

Never. A lot of guys think it causes uneven back development, but my tailor said my left back-side was actually larger than my right, which is funny because I’m right handed, but I pronate the right hand, and I am much stronger when performing barbell and dumbbell movements with my right because of years of archery. Go figure.

I dunno man, I don’t have huge arms. For what it’s worth, I’ve been doing a lot of volume and backing off on the weight for my arms, and they seem to be responding better.

I row almost every day in the gym, some variation. Seated cable row pyramids, kroc rows, barbell rows, t-bar rows. Seriously, almost every day. I feel like as long as I’m recovering and my back isn’t too beat up, why not? My traps get big and strong just from deadlifting, so aside from the occasional barbell/trap-bar shrug, I don’t really worry about them. They get enough indirect work when I work on my overhead press and do my shoulder assistance exercises.

I think low and heavy on the main lifts, and bodybuilding style on smaller muscle groups/assistance lifts. Sometimes I go ultra high-volume on back exercises simply because it’s so involved in all three lifts (pyramid sets or 20+ rep pause sets). I haven’t noticed any detrimental effects from working out like this for the past few months, and I’ve been cutting weight too, so most days I’m in a deficit of either calories or carbs.

I don’t have knee problems, but my hips are almost always pretty beat up and my wrists have been bothering me on and off lately. I do a lot of stretching, dynamic and static, before and after working out. I always do a 5-10 minute cardio warmup (well, almost always - if the gym is packed, I usually beeline for the rack). I foam roll when I need it, and used to get massages every few weeks when I was getting knotty in my upper back. I’ve been healthy for the last few years, but I’m also only 25, so we’ll see what happens. I wrap my wrists when I squat/bench heavy sometimes now, and that seems to be helping.[/quote]

Great post!

I will name my first born after you.

[quote]DBasler wrote:
I will jump in on the triceps question because it is a strength for me. I love the close grip bench for tricep growth but nothing beats weighted full ROM dips in my opinion. When you have worked your way to BW +135 for several reps and eventually BW+180 you will have put several extra inches on your arms as well as greatly improved all of your pressing numbers. [/quote]

I think the dips have been beating my wrists up a bit recently. Also, I don’t have a belt to weight my dips.

Would you program the CGBP heavy for lots of sets of 5, or light for lots of sets of 10 to 20? (This is how volume works in my mind. I usually shoot for 40 to 50 reps of any given assistance exercise.)

Thanks for the post!

[quote]budreiser wrote:
busted out my laptop for this thread

  1. I feel like conventional has more carryover to sumo than the other way around. If i pulled conventional I would not use an sumo assistance.
  2. I’d stay the course with where you are. for reasons refer to answer 1
  3. floor press is goddamn amazing. just pause it at the bottom.
  4. I’m not sure i’ve never had that issue
  5. deficits are useful but I prefer just pulling off the floor. I prefer rdl’s to straight legs.
  6. I don’t alternate hands
  7. I don’t have awesome tricep strength but it’s the strongest part of my bench. I used to do a ton close grips, floor presses, and dead benches. After doing band benches again yesterday I’m probably going to add those back in. Tate presses are my favorite db assistance to work on tricep strength. For whatever reason they don’t eat up my elbows like everything else.
    How much volume are you doing on your tricep days and what does your overall week look like in regard to upper body?
  8. Back exercises I love:
    adding bands against chest supported rows. I take my bench grip and try to hold it at my chest for a second on every rep
    band pull aparts
    heavy as shit shrugs
    deadstop db rows
  9. I feel like you can add more reps/sets in intelligently or really stupidly. I usually just follow the upper end of prilepins chart for upper body and the middle-lower end for lowerbody movements.
  10. avoiding injury is mostly avoiding going full retard in the gym, at least for me. a recent example is that one day I set pr 1rm’s in my front squat and squat. 2 days later my new knee wraps came in, so I decided to max on my wrapped squat.
  11. if they put you in a spot close to where you get stuck, I’d say try them out.
  12. If I had other bars I would mostly use the ssb and maybe the cambered bar on a very regular basis
  13. I love wrist wraps. a lot. Idk how much they actually help because I haven’t hit a max without them in 1.5 years but they help me feel more confident in the weight.
    [/quote]

Thanks man haha. I am starting to see a pattern of what works well and what doesn’t appear to work well for a lot of the people posting in here.

Do you have any particular reason for your beliefs of number 1?

Ok, so if I missed any of your questions please feel free to ask them again. I would love to answer/provide as much info as possible to make this the most useful thread I can. I feel like there is a ton of quality info that has been served up.

I wasn’t sure how this thread was going to go, but I am very pleased with how this is working out. Thanks again guys. I will definitely try to pay it forward.

It is almost like I have found people on T-Nation who know their stuff, actually lift, and are not arguing or derailing the thread.

+1 karma for all of you.

I will re-read this log a few more times before I change anything, post new questions if they arise, answer new questions, and update this page with my findings. (I guess this is my aside for my log.)

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/jm_blakely_bench_routine

The second vid is the instructional video. Since you seem to already know at least a little about JM I thought you might like to peruse the first link which is a thread with some JM vids and a couple of his articles.

People usually switch to pulling sumo because they suck at pulling conventional. Having a stronger back from doing more conventionals helps me pull myself into a stronger starting position in a sumo. I’m also a believer in doing things you suck at to get better at things you don’t

  1. Doing 3 warmup sets then 5x5 would put you in the 40 rep range for CGBP. Or 4x6 or 3x8 ect… u get the idea

  2. By doing sets of CGBP @80 percent of MY top bench set for the day it periodizes its self repwise so…5s week you get high reps. 3s week you get medium reps. 1s week you get heavy reps. So you endup hitting allaspects not just one. I’m at the point where I am pausing it too… but I started off just amrap till similiar weights started feeling light… which will take a while.

Ben rice has some amazing stuff. His double pause deads are killer. I also like his way of doubling volume he says ex. Take your current Bench press routine 1. Split it into two sep. Days. 2. Do half each day.3. Each cycle merely add one set to each of those days. After a few cycles you’ve doubled your volume and gave your body plenty of time to adjust w.o killin youfself on it. I don’t think I’ve missed one of his vids in almost 2years…

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
I really think I can only answer one question here. That is about the sticking point on your deadlift. Ben rice does a twisted and crazy movement called double pause deadlifts, look them up. I personally havent found the use in putting them into my training but I plan on it in the future. They seem to add alot of speed to ones deadlift. Just a thought if you willing to try it lemme know man.[/quote]

I may actually give these a shot. How would you program them into my deadlift day?

My log would be the best place to give you info on how my current set up looks.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/trivium#myLogs

I like this a lot. Thank you for the post![/quote]

If its of any help CT put up some on info on including double pause sets in workouts. He reccomended 3-4 sets of 3 @ 50-55% of your max and pausing for 2 seconds at each point (2" off floor and just above knees). Then you can slowly add weight as your positional strength gets stronger.

@barbedwired thanks for posting your routine in “My 5/3/1 template” or whatever the forum is called, I stole your 3x3 at 90% of the days max principle.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/jm_blakely_bench_routine

The second vid is the instructional video. Since you seem to already know at least a little about JM I thought you might like to peruse the first link which is a thread with some JM vids and a couple of his articles. [/quote]

That is an awesome forum post. I never thought to search for his stuff on here before.

[quote]barbedwired wrote:

  1. Doing 3 warmup sets then 5x5 would put you in the 40 rep range for CGBP. Or 4x6 or 3x8 ect… u get the idea

  2. By doing sets of CGBP @80 percent of MY top bench set for the day it periodizes its self repwise so…5s week you get high reps. 3s week you get medium reps. 1s week you get heavy reps. So you endup hitting allaspects not just one. I’m at the point where I am pausing it too… but I started off just amrap till similiar weights started feeling light… which will take a while.[/quote]

I like this strategy. I’ll give it a go. I especially like the 80% rule. I may modify it to 75% though, that way if I rep out at the end and get 10, I’ll have a cheap estimate of progression by being able to see a very crude 1rm. This and floor press will be my additions to my chest work. Now I just have to figure out where to fit it in haha.

Thanks for the post.

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
I really think I can only answer one question here. That is about the sticking point on your deadlift. Ben rice does a twisted and crazy movement called double pause deadlifts, look them up. I personally havent found the use in putting them into my training but I plan on it in the future. They seem to add alot of speed to ones deadlift. Just a thought if you willing to try it lemme know man.[/quote]

I may actually give these a shot. How would you program them into my deadlift day?

My log would be the best place to give you info on how my current set up looks.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/trivium#myLogs

I like this a lot. Thank you for the post![/quote]

If its of any help CT put up some on info on including double pause sets in workouts. He reccomended 3-4 sets of 3 @ 50-55% of your max and pausing for 2 seconds at each point (2" off floor and just above knees). Then you can slowly add weight as your positional strength gets stronger.[/quote]

I will add a set or two next DL workout, if I feel like I can make the reps haha. Thanks for the programming advice.

I am lazy with the big lifts, so I just do plates.

As for the alternating grip, I personally completely threw my body out of whack by never alternating. First two years of lifting I never deadlifted, I started deadlifting double overhand, and would switch to alternating grip when I couldn’t grip double over. I never switched hands though, after 6 months, my whole body was out of sync, every pulling exercise was uneven and difficult to now perform. I started switching hands, and about a year later I’m just getting back to somewhat normal. I still pull double overhand until I can’t grip any longer, then alternating grip, but switching hands every set. I know people posted they don’t ever switch because it never bothered them, but it fucked me up using the same alt. grip month after month. Just my .02

[quote]arc23p wrote:
As for the alternating grip, I personally completely threw my body out of whack by never alternating. First two years of lifting I never deadlifted, I started deadlifting double overhand, and would switch to alternating grip when I couldn’t grip double over. I never switched hands though, after 6 months, my whole body was out of sync, every pulling exercise was uneven and difficult to now perform. I started switching hands, and about a year later I’m just getting back to somewhat normal. I still pull double overhand until I can’t grip any longer, then alternating grip, but switching hands every set. I know people posted they don’t ever switch because it never bothered them, but it fucked me up using the same alt. grip month after month. Just my .02[/quote]

Thanks for posting man, but could you be a bit more specific?

Did you develop unevenly? Did you get hurt or feel tight? Did you have a strength imbalance? Did your CNS burn out?

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]arc23p wrote:
As for the alternating grip, I personally completely threw my body out of whack by never alternating. First two years of lifting I never deadlifted, I started deadlifting double overhand, and would switch to alternating grip when I couldn’t grip double over. I never switched hands though, after 6 months, my whole body was out of sync, every pulling exercise was uneven and difficult to now perform. I started switching hands, and about a year later I’m just getting back to somewhat normal. I still pull double overhand until I can’t grip any longer, then alternating grip, but switching hands every set. I know people posted they don’t ever switch because it never bothered them, but it fucked me up using the same alt. grip month after month. Just my .02[/quote]

Thanks for posting man, but could you be a bit more specific?

Did you develop unevenly? Did you get hurt or feel tight? Did you have a strength imbalance? Did your CNS burn out?[/quote]

I definitely developed unevenly, I never got hurt and cns didn’t burn out. I’d say feel tight, but that goes along with the developing unevenly. No strength imbalance, my ROM just got completely messed up with any pulling exercise, even overhead press was a very noticeable imbalance with the range of motion. Once i started switching grips every set it started to get better. Its been a year since I started switching grips every set and I’m almost back to normal. I can deadlift the same weight left forward/right back as left back/right forward. If i can go back in time I’d switch grips every set from when I started deadlifting, the imbalance I developed was quite annoying.

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]barbedwired wrote:

  1. Doing 3 warmup sets then 5x5 would put you in the 40 rep range for CGBP. Or 4x6 or 3x8 ect… u get the idea

  2. By doing sets of CGBP @80 percent of MY top bench set for the day it periodizes its self repwise so…5s week you get high reps. 3s week you get medium reps. 1s week you get heavy reps. So you endup hitting allaspects not just one. I’m at the point where I am pausing it too… but I started off just amrap till similiar weights started feeling light… which will take a while.[/quote]

I like this strategy. I’ll give it a go. I especially like the 80% rule. I may modify it to 75% though, that way if I rep out at the end and get 10, I’ll have a cheap estimate of progression by being able to see a very crude 1rm. This and floor press will be my additions to my chest work. Now I just have to figure out where to fit it in haha.

Thanks for the post.[/quote]

No prob. Starting light is fine. For me using 5/3/1 - its 80 percent of my topset for the day so its act…less than 80 percent of my real max. Over time…everything pans out and you’ll get a feel for what to do.

[quote]chobbs wrote:
@barbedwired thanks for posting your routine in “My 5/3/1 template” or whatever the forum is called, I stole your 3x3 at 90% of the days max principle.[/quote]

Awesome. After a top set on 5/3/1 - the activation is there! and for a strength focus I find this ideal. At first I just hit the reps 3x3. Secondly I’ve added in complete pauses for bench and squats and added deficits to the deads. Thirdly I’ve made the last set an option to go amrap. Goodluck I’m curious to see how it pans out for you…

Chobs- since I’m running 5/3/1 the 90 percent is quite doable since its 90 of a T.M for the day. The only glitch I ran into- when doing 90 percent of a true max the 3x3 can be quite difficult. According to how you feel you may want to just hit the reps w. No pause or deficits …or… after the each set pull 10 pounds. Again…i only had this happen when experimenting true maxs a couple times. All other times it has done wonders. K enough of the derail. Goodluck.