T Nation

Trinity - Bible Teaching or Doctrine of Man

So as to not confuse the other thread, this thread is dedicated to discussing the Trinity and whether or not it is a Bible teaching.

Maybe you guys can get to the Trinity discussion after you get the ‘Jesus: angel or not’ issue hashed out. I think that is more in line with what D is looking for anyway in the other thread.

I would love to participate in this thread, but I have so much work right now I can do little more than follow along. Trying to keep up and post is just too much right now. Maybe soon…

Agreed - can’t have the Trinity if Jesus is not Divine. interested to see how this one develops.

With that said however, mainline Christian doctrine is very clear - Jesus is Divine and the Father, Son and Holy Ghost comprise the Holy Trinity. That this is official Catholic teaching as well as official teaching for the majority of Protestants, Reformed and Baptists is undisputed.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Maybe you guys can get to the Trinity discussion after you get the ‘Jesus: angel or not’ issue hashed out. I think that is more in line with what D is looking for anyway in the other thread.

I would love to participate in this thread, but I have so much work right now I can do little more than follow along. Trying to keep up and post is just too much right now. Maybe soon…

[/quote]

This is where I would like D to address the last question I asked him about Hebrews 1:4. The other thread seemed to be more related, at least at this point, about prophecy, so I didn’t want to clutter it.

Hopefully we will get to hear your insights in the future, but being busy with work is not such a bad thing in an economy like this :slight_smile:

Aren’t there different interpretations depending on which branch of the church you look at, for example the Eastern Orthodox Church (I believe there was a decision made on it by an ecumenical council).

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Aren’t there different interpretations depending on which branch of the church you look at, for example the Eastern Orthodox Church (I believe there was a decision made on it by an ecumenical council).[/quote]

On this topic, no. Pretty much every Christian denomination is in agreement save for Jehovah’s Witnesses.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

This speaks for me…

[quote]pat wrote:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

This speaks for me…[/quote]

Now, because we are really going to delve into the Trinity, I have my first question for you.

The article used, ‘only-begotten’. What does that mean?

Here is my question that I have been asking now for 3 total threads and asked it about 7-8 times. First scripture reference for all to see.

Hebrews 1:13

which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[h]?

I would like to have the first part of the scripture addressed by any Jehovah’s Witness on this website. Until the question of who Jesus is, is answered I will not address any other Jehovah’s Witness questions, because I have asked this question more times and will continue to address it till I am blue in the face. If there are 3 spirit beings, demons/fallen angels, angels, and God in Heaven. What/Who is Jesus? We all will agree that Jesus is not a demon. If we look at the above scripture Hebrews 1:13 we see that he is not an angel as the Jehovah’s Witnesses would like for us to beleive, then who is Jesus? This is the basis of Christianity. We must determine who Jesus is. I believe that this scripture tells us who he is, but the Jehovah’s Witnesses must address this first.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Aren’t there different interpretations depending on which branch of the church you look at, for example the Eastern Orthodox Church (I believe there was a decision made on it by an ecumenical council).[/quote]

On this topic, no. Pretty much every Christian denomination is in agreement save for Jehovah’s Witnesses.[/quote]

I personally do not put the Jehovah’s Witnesses under the umbrella of Christian. Please no one answer any questions from any JW until my question about Hebrews 1:13 is addressed. This is a direct question that has been skirted for long enough.

Ah, OK, I must’ve been thinking of some other doctrine.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

This speaks for me…[/quote]

Now, because we are really going to delve into the Trinity, I have my first question for you.

The article used, ‘only-begotten’. What does that mean?[/quote]

Only one that comes from directly.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

This speaks for me…[/quote]

Now, because we are really going to delve into the Trinity, I have my first question for you.

The article used, ‘only-begotten’. What does that mean?[/quote]

Only one that comes from directly.[/quote]

Exactly - only begotten - only one born from - the rest of us are the adopted children of God through salvation purchased by the only begotten one.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Here is my question that I have been asking now for 3 total threads and asked it about 7-8 times. First scripture reference for all to see.

Hebrews 1:13

which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[h]?

I would like to have the first part of the scripture addressed by any Jehovah’s Witness on this website. Until the question of who Jesus is, is answered I will not address any other Jehovah’s Witness questions, because I have asked this question more times and will continue to address it till I am blue in the face. If there are 3 spirit beings, demons/fallen angels, angels, and God in Heaven. What/Who is Jesus? We all will agree that Jesus is not a demon. If we look at the above scripture Hebrews 1:13 we see that he is not an angel as the Jehovah’s Witnesses would like for us to beleive, then who is Jesus? This is the basis of Christianity. We must determine who Jesus is. I believe that this scripture tells us who he is, but the Jehovah’s Witnesses must address this first.[/quote]

Ok let’s discuss this like adults. We can have running conversations in a thread. Don’t try and prevent others from speaking.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Aren’t there different interpretations depending on which branch of the church you look at, for example the Eastern Orthodox Church (I believe there was a decision made on it by an ecumenical council).[/quote]

On this topic, no. Pretty much every Christian denomination is in agreement save for Jehovah’s Witnesses.[/quote]

I personally do not put the Jehovah’s Witnesses under the umbrella of Christian. Please no one answer any questions from any JW until my question about Hebrews 1:13 is addressed. This is a direct question that has been skirted for long enough.[/quote]

Well in a technical sense I would agree. They are more like deists.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Here is my question that I have been asking now for 3 total threads and asked it about 7-8 times. First scripture reference for all to see.

Hebrews 1:13

which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[h]?

I would like to have the first part of the scripture addressed by any Jehovah’s Witness on this website. Until the question of who Jesus is, is answered I will not address any other Jehovah’s Witness questions, because I have asked this question more times and will continue to address it till I am blue in the face. If there are 3 spirit beings, demons/fallen angels, angels, and God in Heaven. What/Who is Jesus? We all will agree that Jesus is not a demon. If we look at the above scripture Hebrews 1:13 we see that he is not an angel as the Jehovah’s Witnesses would like for us to beleive, then who is Jesus? This is the basis of Christianity. We must determine who Jesus is. I believe that this scripture tells us who he is, but the Jehovah’s Witnesses must address this first.[/quote]

Ok let’s discuss this like adults. We can have running conversations in a thread. Don’t try and prevent others from speaking.[/quote]

I will say I have been trying to have a conversation on this topic for 3 threads, but you and mse2us have refused to answer. I have been very patient. Are you guys going to answer the direct question or not?

OK, to answer your question, I am going to ask some viewpoint questions. First one, what does verse 4 of Hebrews Chapter 1 tell you? - Important for context of your verse.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Here is my question that I have been asking now for 3 total threads and asked it about 7-8 times. First scripture reference for all to see.

Hebrews 1:13

which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[h]?

If there are 3 spirit beings, demons/fallen angels, angels, and God in Heaven. What/Who is Jesus? .[/quote]

What is the difference between fallen angels and angels? You classified them each as a type of spirit being. Why?

BTW, I am answering your question. I am finding out how you are viewing things.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

This speaks for me…[/quote]

Now, because we are really going to delve into the Trinity, I have my first question for you.

The article used, ‘only-begotten’. What does that mean?[/quote]

Only one that comes from directly.[/quote]

Exactly - only begotten - only one born from - the rest of us are the adopted children of God through salvation purchased by the only begotten one.
[/quote]

Exactly! So what does that ultimately mean to you?