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Trenbolon or Winny?

Which would would I keep more of my gains from out of Trenbolon or Winny by itself?

I already have nice size and quality muscle. I just want something that will help me get ripped without making me put on much size.

This would be the first time that I use roids. Which one would I have a better chance at keeping what I gain if I had a choice of just one of these?

For drug test how long do both of these stay detectable?

thanks guys

For detection times (how long it stays in your system) a good site to look at is www.steroidtips.com

It will explain the effectiveness and detection times and quite a bit of information about these two substances.

Just follow the menu on the left hand side. By the way trembolone is also known as parabolan.

For more in-depth info, go to steroid.com This is full of useful info and will definately help you choose.

Good luck

Ummm. Two of the harshist steroids being considered as ran solo by a first timer is my first thought.

My second thought is that there are so many reasons and factors as far as keeping gains before even looking into gain keepability of aas.

To keep the answer simple - Trenbolone

Both are pretty good as far as gains and maintains. Both can also be pretty hard on your body and therefore not recommended.

If you consider many other aas. Then the main thing that you do not have much control over as far as not keeping true muscle gains is how far from or above you are from your body’s natural “set-point limit”.

In other words you could run a moderate test cycle and with a good pct plan not lose any muscle post cycle if the cycle didn’t bring you far above natural. I’m rambling - reconsider your aas choice and post goals and plans.

To piggy back on what’s already been said. Neither would be my first choice. Tren is clearly the better overall product. It really is wise to run some Test with Tren.

Please don’t listen to anything mason_21 has to say.

If he is any representation of the quality of steroid.com, you should never go there, and you should never do anything it outlines.

parabolan refers to one specific ester of tren - not all tren.

I would never do tren alone. I would never ever use tren alone as a fist cycle.

What you are wanting to do is totally achievable via diet and training alone. Throwing tren or winny into the mix just because you have heard it is pretty good stuff is a dangerous decision.

You need to read up, and understand the implications, and hazards of using AAS. If you don’t have the time to do that - then you should seriously reconsider using AAS.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Please don’t listen to anything mason_21 has to say.

If he is any representation of the quality of steroid.com, you should never go there, and you should never do anything it outlines.

parabolan refers to one specific ester of tren - not all tren.

I would never do tren alone. I would never ever use tren alone as a fist cycle.

What you are wanting to do is totally achievable via diet and training alone. Throwing tren or winny into the mix just because you have heard it is pretty good stuff is a dangerous decision.

You need to read up, and understand the implications, and hazards of using AAS. If you don’t have the time to do that - then you should seriously reconsider using AAS.

[/quote]
So rainjack, Why is a trembolone acetate and winstrol depot cycle recommended in Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn as a beginner cycle?

You really do think you know everything dont you?

I think I would take the info given by the author of a VERY REPUTABLE book than some guy on the web.

[quote]mason_21 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Please don’t listen to anything mason_21 has to say.

If he is any representation of the quality of steroid.com, you should never go there, and you should never do anything it outlines.

parabolan refers to one specific ester of tren - not all tren.

I would never do tren alone. I would never ever use tren alone as a fist cycle.

What you are wanting to do is totally achievable via diet and training alone. Throwing tren or winny into the mix just because you have heard it is pretty good stuff is a dangerous decision.

You need to read up, and understand the implications, and hazards of using AAS. If you don’t have the time to do that - then you should seriously reconsider using AAS.

So rainjack, Why is a trembolone acetate and winstrol depot cycle recommended in Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn as a beginner cycle?

You really do think you know everything dont you?

I think I would take the info given by the author of a VERY REPUTABLE book than some guy on the web.[/quote]

Llewellyn is a very smart man, and I would trust his book over any other reference manual out there. But I disagree with his cycle designs.

Bill Roberts thinks it is fine to do a cycle without test. I think he is wrong, as do many many other people. But I have nothing but the utmost respect for him.

On the other hand, you are not smart, or worthy of any respect. You are a 19-year old punk ass kid that has been told in your own thread how stupid your cycle design is - and here you are on another thread acting as if you are capable of giving advice.

If you want to do that - knock yourself out - but not in my forum. GO to Anabolic-Review.

I have never said I know everything. But I do know more than enough to tell a noob with a steroid book to fuck off.

[quote]mason_21 wrote:
Why is a trembolone acetate and winstrol depot cycle recommended in Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn as a beginner cycle?
[/quote]

because all the newbs are hearing how great tren is on the boards and demanding tren based cycles (not unlike this thread), so bill made a “safe” tren/winny cycle.

if you really know your shit, you could have explained how winny has the ability to mitigate some of the progesterone side effects of 19nor steroid bases such as trenbolone and nandrolone.

the reason most recommend a test-based cycle for the beginning is to see how one’s body responds to a safe, well studied compound which has less side effect potential, but you probably already knew that.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
mason_21 wrote:
Why is a trembolone acetate and winstrol depot cycle recommended in Anabolics 2006 by William Llewellyn as a beginner cycle?

because all the newbs are hearing how great tren is on the boards and demanding tren based cycles (not unlike this thread), so bill made a “safe” tren/winny cycle.

if you really know your shit, you could have explained how winny has the ability to mitigate some of the progesterone side effects of 19nor steroid bases such as trenbolone and nandrolone.

the reason most recommend a test-based cycle for the beginning is to see how one’s body responds to a safe, well studied compound which has less side effect potential, but you probably already knew that.[/quote]

Yeah i knew that but i dont really want too much size at the moment.

I could do a test only cycle but this would mean bulking up and this would be something i would do for sure in the future.

But for the mean time i just want something for cutting up.
Thanks for some Non-Sarcastice advice

[quote]mason_21 wrote:

Yeah i knew that but i dont really want too much size at the moment.

I could do a test only cycle but this would mean bulking up and this would be something i would do for sure in the future.

But for the mean time i just want something for cutting up.
Thanks for some Non-Sarcastice advice
[/quote]

You know nothing. You have been told what to do. No one has been sarcastic with you.

You tried to use Lewellyn as proof of my stupidity, and you were soundly defeated twice on that issue.

If you have a question - either read up on it, which you have yet to do - or start your own thread.

You have bastardized this one enough as it is.

not trying to jack anybodies thread, but I have a tren cycle question. I am ready to start my fourth cycle and I am 6’0, 220lbs, carry alittle more body fat than normal, also 27years old.

I have am wanting to do a tren cycle, but not sure what else to run, i have read that a tren/dbol cycle gives good results. could someone give me some suggestions on this type of cycle.

If you are already at the point where you dont want to gain too much size then you should look towards your diet and training rather than sauce.
Like was already said I would also never do a cycle consisting of just tren or winni. Neither of which should be a beginner compound.

Tren is a great product when stacked with test and if you dont mind daily injections. However not necessary for a first cycle.

Any bloat that you feel would be associated with a test cycle can typically be controlled with an AI and diet.
See Ya

OK ok ok ok ok

Which one will get you ripped? I don’t wantt o hear about dieting… I know…

I just want a straight answer.

Which compound will get you ripped and looking like steel?

thank guys

[quote]BIgKeith wrote:
OK ok ok ok ok

Which one will get you ripped? I don’t wantt o hear about dieting… I know…

I just want a straight answer.

Which compound will get you ripped and looking like steel?

thank guys
[/quote]

Neither. You have been told several times that it is a function of diet.

You have to train, and eat right.

AAS is not for you.

You have proven your laziness in something as simple as this - I doubt you have the ability to actually eat and train with any conviction either.

In all seriousness if you do not want to hear about diet and training then we can’t answer your question.I could be wrong I admitedly do not know shit. However what I have read about Tren in any form is it is effective as a bulker or a cutter depending on…you guessed it diet and training. I will say this I have run tren e once for 20 weeks( yes 20 weeks,see ya can’t believe everything ya read)I ran 500mg per week with 750 mg test e as a kind of lean mass cycle.

I still experienced some bloat from the test but after my taper I will say I kept the most gains on this cycle than any other.Most of these guys are probably telling you it is not a good first cycle choice as the sides( horrible sweats, reduced cardio capacity etc.) might be hard for a newb to handle. That being said it is because I do not know enough that I respect the opinions of rainjack,prisoner#22,juice20 etc etc.I don’t think any one hear would give you bad advice.

If you do decide to do it let us know how it goes I would be interested to hear.To paraphrase the wise student from wales “your body,your life, your choice”…

[quote]BIgKeith wrote:
OK ok ok ok ok

Which one will get you ripped? I don’t wantt o hear about dieting… I know…

I just want a straight answer.

Which compound will get you ripped and looking like steel?

thank guys
[/quote]

If your dead set on not taking anyone who knows what their talking bout’s advice, then Tren. Winny by itself is fairly useless. There’s not much tren can’t do, even on its own. But its harsh, shuts you down big time, can kill any chance you thought you had of getting it up and can make you feel fairly shitty most of the time.

Also, if you want to do it right you need to inject daily (EOD at worst). That sucks for anyone, let alone a newbie. Tren is out of your system quick, but can be detected for 5-8 months based on who you ask.

If your smart, take these guys advice and skip this shit. Sounds like you could do what you want naturally. Believe me, if you hit either you will most likely be disappointed in the end.

This is all for a friend of mine. I workout hard and eat very clean… I know what it takes to look ripped, but some people don’t want to suffer by doing all the hard work.

I do have a question for myself… What juice is the best to help heal tendons and joints?

i particularly like eq, seems to help quite a bit and doesn’t have the drawbacks of deca. then again, this is an N=1 study so grain of salt.

as a note, my favs are Eq, TE and TP, var, and tbol. reasons being safety/lack of sides, efficacy, and they stack well. i also use adex/nolva during and clomid after.

an interesting thing is with the tbol if i go over 30mg/day i get muscle tightness and sometimes cramping, but no joint pain. i felt muscle tightness with joint pain but no cramping for winny, so i no longer use it.

[quote]BIgKeith wrote:
I do have a question for myself… What juice is the best to help heal tendons and joints?[/quote]

Deca has helped me. Here is an interesting study: http://www.unchealthcare.org/site/newsroom/news/2004/Jun/anabolic_steroids

But you should still avoid any exercise that causes you pain. Generally unless I’m 8 weeks or less away from a meet I will take a couple weeks off to let the deca kick in and to rest the area. I just do some light recovery work to speed the healing process up for those 2 weeks. Then I start back up slowly and try to avoid anything that hurts, if possible.

[quote]BIgKeith wrote:
OK ok ok ok ok
Which one will get you ripped? I don’t wantt o hear about dieting… I know…
I just want a straight answer.
Which compound will get you ripped and looking like steel?

thank guys

This is all for a friend of mine. I workout hard and eat very clean… I know what it takes to look ripped, but some people don’t want to suffer by doing all the hard work.[/quote]

Tell your “friend” that getting ripped doesn’t require any “hard work” nor do you “suffer” during the process. All it takes is a food log and consistency.

Tell “him” he’ll never be “looking like steel” until “he” knows how low to drop his kcals (thanks to lessons from his food log), and that the tren and strol are used simply to maintain LBM during an extended caloric deficit. Is “he” starting to understand why everyone says nutrition is always the most important piece of the puzzle?

And if “he” can’t handle all of that basic stuff, “he” certainly can’t handle the daily injections those compounds require.