T Nation

tren/test/win cycle

What does everybody think of this (and thanks to p-22 for helping me figure this out.)

Tren/test/win oral cycle of 8 weeks in length

1st wk:
sust 250 - 1400mg
tren 75 ed
win 100 ed
nolvadex on hand

2nd wk:
sust 250 -1000mg
tren 75ed
win 100ed

3rd wk:
Sust 250- 1000mg
tren 75ed
win 100ed
weekend hcg 100 i.u.

4th wk:
Sust 250- 1000mg
tren 75ed
win 100ed
hcg weeked 100 i.u.

5th wk:
Sust 250- 500mg
tren 75ed
win 100ed
hcg weekend 200 i.u

6th wk:
Tren 75ed
Win 100ed
hcg weekend 250 i.u

7th wk:
Tren 75ed
Win 100ed
Hcg weekend 250i.u

8th wk:
Tren 75ed
Win 100ed
Hcg saturday 250 i.u. Sunday 250 i.u.

Week 9 Recover protocol begins
Nolvadex 40 mg a day

Week 10
Nolvadex 20 mg a day

Week 11
Nolvadex 20mg a day

Week 12
continue with nolva if needed

Does anybody have an opinion on the ammount of test being used? Too much or just right. I’m trying to keep water retention to an absolute minimum with this cycle. The one thing i might consider doing is cutting the test dosages in half and saving the extra sust for something else later. Thoughts? Its probably important to mention that with the exception of sustanon i’ve never used any of these drugs before, and that i’m currently 6’3" 240lbs and 12-14%bf. Appreciate anybody’s input. JP

you might get some water retention from the test, but it still looks like a good cycle to me. the only thing i would do different is to add prop the last 3 weeks.

No need for the prop, since the sust esters will still be active=a nice gradual taper off.

I would drop the tren sooner, that shit is bitch to recover from. I would prefer Prop the last three weeks two, I personally feel better and seem to recover better with the prop, sust not so much.

I like the structure of your cycle, however I would use test propionate along with the winny and tren. You’ll like the results with or without the prop. at the end, however you’d be happier with the results. 50mgs ed or eod would do the trick along with what you are already using. As far as test dosages I think that you don’t have much to be concern about except that on week 5 you reduced your intake to 500mgs. I would continue with 1000mgs on week five and starting on week 6 I would drop the sustanon and run propionate at the dose mentioned above. Hope this helps.

you havent stated your goals. this stack is a great mass/strength stack. it is basically structured just fine but i would change a few things. first, your front is a little lite. week one use 2g(or 2cc’s/eod). then drop it at week 2 to 1g/wk(1cc/eod). second, i dont see the point in dropping the test in week 5. that will serve no purpose. i am assuming you are trying to aid in recovery by doing this. you will still be equally suppressed at cycles end from the tren. run it at 1g all the way through week 8. if your afraid of the long acting test esthers in the sust then switch to prop on week 6 but continue at 1g/wk. if your trying to do a bulking/cutting cycle all in one, forget it. either bulk, or cut. both dont go well together. quite honestly, your diet is the biggest factor in bulking or cutting anyways. not the chemicals. third, drop the winny at week 6, or dont start it until week 3. typically 6 weeks is the max i suggest running a 17-aa. will it kill you for one cycle? no. but over the long haul it will take a toll. fourth, i dont see an anti-e protocol. make sure you have adex, or nolva in there throughout. you WILL need it at those levels of test. i like the hcg throughout, and pct looks fine.

This cycle was origionally a cutting cycle but he decided to add more test - the test was origionally just for the purposes of keeping his boys working - thats why i didn’t design the sust to go to the end of the cycle. As the cycle progresses - the sust decreases but the hcg increases off-setting the falling exogenous T thus keeping the sex drive well throughout the cycle-
He decided he wanted more test though so he got more. P-22

also his ancillary protocol will be nolva @ 20mg/ day

roger that. in that case 1cc of sust will suffice. maybe even 2 a week. again, diet is the key. test works perfectly fine in cutting cycles imo. again, i wouldnt be afraid to run it throughout. just my .02

with the amount of test being run arimidex might be adviseable. if you’re goimg to go with with nolvadex best split in half morning and night and possibly 30-40mg not 20mg.

Arimidex can be hard to get, as far a nolvadex goes, 10-20mg should suffice as long as no symptoms of gyno present themselves. Nolvadex has a long half-life (4 days I believe) so it may make sence to front load but once again if just taking 10-20 mg a day, one dose in the morning should be sufficient. I personally need to take 40 mg of nolvadex, and I split the dosage up - once in morning and once at night. THis is just me however - because my nips are super sensitive because I did a cycle and found the nolvadex and clomid I had was fake. once you develope the “glands” behind the nipple the nipple becomes much more sensitive to estrogen (from my own experience). And therefore more nolvadex is needed- everyone is differnent however. P-22